What do you believe?

[Rhema]

it is perfectly fine to serve, worship and pray to Jesus as He is God the Son.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.​

(John 15:16 KJV)

And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.​

(John 16:23 KJV)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)

Think about it,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

This TRINITY doctrine is responsible for driving millions OUT of Christianity.

Not as many as the doctrine of Bible Inerrancy.

 

[KingJ]

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.​

(John 15:16 KJV)

And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.​

(John 16:23 KJV)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)

Think about it,
Rhema

You are cherry picking verses, pushing a half truth. You need to take these verses with the ones I gave, of which there are many more and put them all together to arrive at the truth. God was 100% flesh and separated from Himself as the Father for 33 years and four months.

When we cherry pick verses, we are no better than the devil in Matt 4.

 

[Garee]

A teaching that God got some random creation who drew the shortest straw to die for us is more a doctrine of demons over believing He became flesh and died for us.

You are not thinking rationally. You are only showing that you can recite indoctrination.

As for your line about this causing 300 years of war, oh brother, if only the reformation wars were that simple.

I would think more he died with us or like us (Emanuel) like all born again from above

 

[Rhema]

You are cherry picking verses, pushing a half truth.

It doesn't surprise me that you would reject the verses that prove you wrong. Admit it, you're unable to admit when you're wrong. (Oh, right, you can't. Look deep in your heart. You're always right, aren't you.)

You need to take these verses with the ones I gave, of which there are many more and put them all together to arrive at the truth.

The truth is that Jesus taught you to pray to the Father in Jesus' name, and you preach a doctrine that rejects the VERY TEACHINGS of Jesus, NOT doing what He says.

How perverted.

But maybe I'm wrong, so SHOW ME ONE VERSE where Jesus teaches you to pray to him. (Go ahead, prove me wrong.)

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

@KingJ @Rhema
You both are better than what you present to each other. Sadly, not many others will have the opportunity to see it as I do.

Each of you could even argue for the others position if you were asked to and have no problem being able to present a solid argument. However, because it is KingJ/Rhema it is not a consideration that would willingly be entertained much less undertaken.

If I could convince the Lord, I'd surely ask that you'd both be required to sit next to each other at the banquet table! Then see you both reach at the same time for the same delicacy...

One day in Christ Jesus, if so blessed, you will both see the foolishness of how you have behaved towards each other, when in truth the most stalwart defender outside of God Himself, could be each other.

Eternity is a long time...back to your corners please.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ @Rhema
You both are better than what you present to each other. Sadly, not many others will have the opportunity to see it as I do.

Each of you could even argue for the others position if you were asked to and have no problem being able to present a solid argument. However, because it is KingJ/Rhema it is not a consideration that would willingly be entertained much less undertaken.

If I could convince the Lord, I'd surely ask that you'd both be required to sit next to each other at the banquet table! Then see you both reach at the same time for the same delicacy...

One day in Christ Jesus, if so blessed, you will both see the foolishness of how you have behaved towards each other, when in truth the most stalwart defender outside of God Himself, could be each other.

Eternity is a long time...back to your corners please.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I think you have your facts on Rhema wrong.

He believes in annihilationism, does not believe in the trinity, encourages the death penalty for all abortionists even if in the first week and is one of the rudest, most narcissistic and disrespectful people on the internet.

1. Annihilationism does not support true free will. No free will taints God as evil.

2. No trinity taints God as evil and unloving. He chose some random being who drew the shortest straw to die a very cruel death for us.

3. Calling abortionists murderers and wanting the death penalty for those who abort in the germinal stage even after something like a rape makes Christianity and the bible seem like a joke.

Now, if @Rhema would take his job as an ambassador of God 2 Cor 5:20 seriously, he would not reply like a child but take these accusations seriously.

I feel that him and our resident Calvinists @Dylan569 and @Brightfame52 need to all explain WHY THEY TEACH THAT GOD IS EVIL!!!

I feel sick reading their posts where they dodge and evade a simple and necessary explanation. I wish I was a mod that could force it. It should not be possible to be on a Christian site when you consistently defame the cross and God's nature with no consequences.

 

[KingJ]

It doesn't surprise me that you would reject the verses that prove you wrong. Admit it, you're unable to admit when you're wrong. (Oh, right, you can't. Look deep in your heart. You're always right, aren't you.)\

1 Cor 12:3 says that if you do not know Jesus as Lord, you do not know Him.

Isa 9:6 says that God became flesh and a Son, for us.

The popular verse that non-trinitarians and Muslims quote is Matt 27:46 My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?

This verse hits harder than the ones you quoted. Jesus talks of a complete separation between Himself and the Father.

Grasping the trinity is not that easy. It is a spiritual truth and requires our carnal mind to believe that God can separate Himself from Himself.

Now it is very 'human' and carnal to teach a half-truth on this, holding only on to the type of scriptures you have cherry picked. It seems logical as we are separate beings. But then I must ask you, where does God come from? God and who He is certainly NOT logical and something we can fully grasp. If He says He became flesh to die for us, we believe Him and hope that in heaven we will better grasp this truth. Especially when teaching that He did not die for us so HEAVILY incriminates Him!

The truth is that Jesus taught you to pray to the Father in Jesus' name, and you preach a doctrine that rejects the VERY TEACHINGS of Jesus, NOT doing what He says.

How perverted.

But maybe I'm wrong, so SHOW ME ONE VERSE where Jesus teaches you to pray to him. (Go ahead, prove me wrong.)

Rhema

Again, I can do one better at devil's advocate. Jesus says in Mark 10:18 that He is not 'good', but only the Father in heaven is.

Jesus knew that He would be tainted with the sin of mankind. Jesus knew that He was separate from the Father. Jesus knew that He was in flesh. He would most certainly not have encouraged prayer to Him at that time. But Jesus knew that He was the Messiah. And per Isa 9:6 and other scriptures, this has always meant that He was Lord, God the Son. Someone equal with God.

Now, can you explain to me how it is that Christians all over the world are compelled by the Spirit of God to worship and praise Jesus when God is a jealous God! Are all Christians except for you, wrong? Paul says He wants to know NOTHING save Christ and Him crucified! 1 Cor 2:2. If I was a god I would get upset and jealous at that statement. Wouldn't you?

--------------------

You cherry pick your logic as you do your scriptures. That my friend is the definition of false teaching.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@KingJ @Rhema
You both are better than what you present to each other. Sadly, not many others will have the opportunity to see it as I do.

Each of you could even argue for the others position if you were asked to and have no problem being able to present a solid argument. However, because it is KingJ/Rhema it is not a consideration that would willingly be entertained much less undertaken.

If I could convince the Lord, I'd surely ask that you'd both be required to sit next to each other at the banquet table! Then see you both reach at the same time for the same delicacy...

One day in Christ Jesus, if so blessed, you will both see the foolishness of how you have behaved towards each other, when in truth the most stalwart defender outside of God Himself, could be each other.

Eternity is a long time...back to your corners please.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I think you have your facts on Rhema wrong.

From what I have written above, what facts do I have incorrect regarding Rhema, or yourself for that matter?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Garee]

1. Annihilationism does not support true free will. No free will taints God as evil.

I would think it does support the spiritual food. . our daily bread or meat that works in the believer to both (the key) reveal the will and empower the powerless dying mankind, Jesus to do it to the good pleasure of the Father ..

The free will food that the apostles knew not of at first they were still under the milk of the word God teaching he is the gracious one

John4:3-4Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The will before the fall.

 

[KingJ]

From what I have written above, what facts do I have incorrect regarding Rhema, or yourself for that matter?

You stated ''You both are better than what you present to each other''.

I think Rhema is exactly who he presents himself as. I believe that even if we sat together, I would find him to be a terribly annoying person.

For the reasons given in my post # 127.

Granted, I also have my faults. As a regular on atheist forums, I can come across with a few fleas of rudeness and sarcasm.

-----------------------

Now I do believe that even in heaven there will be those we do not want to sit next to .

I do not believe God will one day magically change who we are.

-----------------------

Sadly, I do not see Rhema changing into a better person anytime soon. I discern him to be a carnal Christian in that he does not care to defend God with his personal interpretations of scripture. He would rather pridefully insult and bash any who disagree with him. It is fine to hold to your belief, but only if it defends God as good and righteous.

---------------------

I would like for @Rhema to provide a rational explanation on how he sees God as loving, just and righteous in all His ways (which He is 1 John 4:8, Job 34:12, psalm 145:17) when he teaches the lost that God does not give us true free will, does not love us and is unjust.

At least @Rhema is not a Calvinist. @Dylan569 and @Brightfame52 have a lot more explaining to do on their belief.

 

[KingJ]

I would think it does support the spiritual food. . our daily bread or meat that works in the believer to both (the key) reveal the will and empower the powerless dying mankind, Jesus to do it to the good pleasure of the Father ..

The free will food that the apostles knew not of at first they were still under the milk of the word God teaching he is the gracious one

John4:3-4Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The will before the fall.

Hi Garee, not sure what you are saying here. Do you agree with annihilationism?

 

[Garee]

Hi Garee, not sure what you are saying here. Do you agree with annihilationism?

Thanks yes

I would offer. The appointment is to die once. . . the sufferings of death living in bodies of death that return to dust

I understand the second death and its daily sufferings we experience is called hell The death of death. Called the letter of the law (the thou shalt not or you are dead) .the living word of God the power of death and life

From my experrnced many seem to avoid the power of death the letter as it is written. It will not rise up in the new heavens' and earth and again corrupt to death an entire creation.

No retrial or double jeapordy

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;(death) whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (Death)

Both the suffering (hell) and cause (letter) into the fiery judgment never to rise .

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.. . . . .(Final Omega )

 

[KingJ]

Thanks yes

I would offer. The appointment is to die once. . . the sufferings of death living in bodies of death that return to dust

I understand the second death and its daily sufferings we experience is called hell The death of death. Called the letter of the law (the thou shalt not or you are dead) .the living word of God the power of death and life

From my experrnced many seem to avoid the power of death the letter as it is written. It will not rise up in the new heavens' and earth and again corrupt to death an entire creation.

No retrial or double jeapordy

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;(death) whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (Death)

Both the suffering (hell) and cause (letter) into the fiery judgment never to rise .

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.. . . . .(Final Omega )

Ok, let's just keep things simple and rational before we quote scripture.

Since you believe in annihilationism. Do you,

1. Believe in true free will? Yes or No?
2. If yes, how do reconcile annihilationism with true free will?
3. If no, how do you believe God is good when He does not give true free will?

 

[Garee]

Ok, let's just keep things simple and rational before we quote scripture.

Since you believe in annihilationism. Do you,

1. Believe in true free will? Yes or No?
2. If yes, how do reconcile annihilationism with true free will?
3. If no, how do you believe God is good when He does not give true free will?

Sorry.

I would offer. . .Free will is the power of the father working in us with us .The kind of food for ones soul the apostles knew not of at first. It would reconcile the power of "Let there be the wines of faith" and "it was good "

In that way God is not served by human hands as a eternal will

John 4: 33-34Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Same daily bread power to both (the key) will and to do or finish spoken of in Philippians 2

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

it would seem whenever we do his will big or little we do it to his glory

He promised the believers as the better thing that accompanies salvation he will not forget the good works we can miraculously offer in respect his power or name

Hebrew 6: 9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Curtis]

But maybe I'm wrong, so SHOW ME ONE VERSE where Jesus teaches you to pray to him. (Go ahead, prove me wrong.)

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Why would Jesus have you pray to Him while still in the midst of His Earthly Ministry?
Yet He now sits/stands on/by the Throne, so who would you go boldly to ask anything anyway that would not include Jesus in the equation?

Sometimes, I believe we are becoming too much like the religious leaders of Jesus' time in certain aspects.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Curtis]

Why would Jesus have you pray to Him while still in the midst of His Earthly Ministry?
Yet He now sits/stands on/by the Throne, so who would you go boldly to ask anything anyway that would not include Jesus in the equation?

Sometimes, I believe we are becoming too much like the religious leaders of Jesus' time in certain aspects.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

It does not make any difference if prayer to Jesus while in his earthly ministry, or Heavenly ministry it is still answered by him.

The first martyr Stephen, prayed to Jesus just before his death.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

The New Testament is filled with people asking Jesus for healing or deliverance.

 

[Curtis]

How can anyone be saved if they do not "call" (pray to) upon the Lord Jesus Christ?

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


1Co 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

All of the New Testament Churches prayed to Jesus!!!

 

[Rhema]

Each of you could even argue for the others position if you were asked to and have no problem being able to present a solid argument.

Whether discussing a position with @KingJ or anyone else who thinks they understand, the simple truth is that a follower of Jesus follows the teachings of Jesus, and his teachings alone. To follow the teachings of another is plain and simple adultery. One adulterates the teachings of Jesus with the opinions and teaching of other men, whether still other men "canonized" those teachings or not. I was twelve when I stopped reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag" (as required in US public schools) when I realized that Jesus taught that one should make no oath. I was 13 when I understood that we are to call no man Pastor, as is taught by Jesus. And the list goes on - regardless of @KingJ

It's not hard.

If I could convince the Lord, I'd surely ask that you'd both be required to sit next to each other at the banquet table! Then see you both reach at the same time for the same delicacy...

Like ham and lobster?

One day in Christ Jesus, if so blessed, you will both see the foolishness of how you have behaved towards each other,

I quoted scripture. Are you now just as foolish to reject that as well? And I stand by my assertion that it is perverted to claim that one follows Jesus and yet with the same tongue reject his simple teachings. There is a difference between rejecting the teachings of Jesus and not obeying them out of the simple fact that one doesn't know or understand them.

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.​

(John 9:41 KJV)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.​

(John 8:51 KJV)

Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.​

(John 8:55 KJV)

Eternity is a long time...back to your corners please.

According to your faith, so be it.

Rhema