What does Jesus mean when he says

[Barny]

So the condemnation of the unbeliever is the law, only due to their unbelief in Christ Jesus.

The believer is righteous. Their faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
The believer is not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, Rom 8:1.

The unbeliever however will be judged as unrighteous and condemned. The law condemns them. This is so for the legalists. They profess to know God/believe on Jesus, but by their works of the law for righteousness, they deny Him.

Question: “Is not loving a sin?”

.

As nobody is perfect in the physical, then the question you ask (with it's obvious direction to the law, that you wish to take it) would condemn everybody.
And remember 1John 3:8;
He who sins is of the devil,

What would be an example of not loving another, that would be a sin?
A legalist is a good example, as they are under the law, so whatever the law says it says to them, Rom 3:19.
A legalist does the lusts of their father, the devil.
John 8:44.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Let's consider the context of John 8 to see what these lusts might be.
John 8:3-12.
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned (a similar type of message we hear from legalists today): but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.


And what did Jesus say to the legalists
John 8:15.
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Note also this point to the legalists.
John 8:24.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Consider also Gal 5; in describing love verse's judging by the law.
Gal 5:4.
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal 5:7-9.
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
A little leaven (doctrine of righteousness by works of the law, Matt 16:12) leaveneth the whole lump.

Gal 5:14-15.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another (judge/condemn one another by works of the law), take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

What would be an example of love that we as Christians should follow.
John 3:16,17.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world (like the legalists try to do under the law); but that the world through him might be saved

Christians therefore show the same love/grace as God showed us. We forgive 7x70 just as God forgives us 7x70.
If we don't have this love for one another and we instead judge/condemn one another as unrighteous because of failure to obey the law perfectly, then we are setting ourselves up as a judge under the law. There is only one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. We ourselves are not to judge another. James 4:12.

So in relation to this discussion I noted that you missed answering my earlier questions. Here they are again.

King David committed adultery and murder. Would you have judged him as a child of the devil?
Are you suggesting that a Christian's lifestyle/behavior must attain some minimum standard of obedience to the law in order to be saved?

 

[brakelite]

@Barney, not only do you invite people onto the 'wide way' but you are standing aside for them and holding the gate open. Your 'gospel' is so false it defies not just scripture, but also logic and common sense, and insults God and makes Him to be powerless against the habits and addictions which result from sin.
Christians can and do sin. They needn't for they have available all the creative power of the Godhead at their disposable to resist the temptation, but if they do sin, they have an advocate with the Father, even Jesus, who pleads His blood on their behalf and offers forgivenss as we turn away from our wrong doing and trust in Him to work in us His good pleasure. That is the beauty of having a High Priest to mediate on our behalf. That is the wonderful beauty of the ministry of Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary...a ministry of intercession through which we who are being saved are being sanctified.

I do not entirely disagree with you about any confusion between the saved and the lost, but I would limit this to the young Christian only. As he grows and matures, the differences should become apparent. That is why the Lord is waiting until the last moment before the harvest of the world. Both the wicked and righteous are ripened for harvest, and the fruits of both made manifest. A clear difference between the wheat and the tares.

Any claim of yours which suggests that no changes need be made after true conversion in lifestyle, behaviour, thoughts, motives etc, denies the power of God, and in truth reflects your own unbelief in Him, your lack of faith, and your disbelief in His promises.

 

[Barny]

@Barney, not only do you invite people onto the 'wide way' but you are standing aside for them and holding the gate open. Your 'gospel' is so false it defies not just scripture, but also logic and common sense, and insults God and makes Him to be powerless against the habits and addictions which result from sin.
Christians can and do sin. They needn't for they have available all the creative power of the Godhead at their disposable to resist the temptation, but if they do sin, they have an advocate with the Father, even Jesus, who pleads His blood on their behalf and offers forgivenss as we turn away from our wrong doing and trust in Him to work in us His good pleasure. That is the beauty of having a High Priest to mediate on our behalf. That is the wonderful beauty of the ministry of Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary...a ministry of intercession through which we who are being saved are being sanctified.

I do not entirely disagree with you about any confusion between the saved and the lost, but I would limit this to the young Christian only. As he grows and matures, the differences should become apparent. That is why the Lord is waiting until the last moment before the harvest of the world. Both the wicked and righteous are ripened for harvest, and the fruits of both made manifest. A clear difference between the wheat and the tares.

Any claim of yours which suggests that no changes need be made after true conversion in lifestyle, behaviour, thoughts, motives etc, denies the power of God, and in truth reflects your own unbelief in Him, your lack of faith, and your disbelief in His promises.

Hi brakelite,

I've said before that grace is not a license to live selfishly. God disciplines Christians, hence nobody is going to profit by doing wrong.
I've also spoken before about how we are each at different stages of growth, hence we should not be judging one another or comparing ourselves with one another.

You have also seen the many references to scripture which all confirm how believers have "ceased from sin" 1Pet 4:1; "cannot sin" 1John 3:9.
Jesus truly set us free from sin, John 8:36.
Nobody can lay anything (even sin) to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33.

The important issue that we differ on is that the doctrine you follow seeks to judge our righteousness by works of the law. Works of the law is what you focus on.

But scripture consistently preaches on believing on Jesus (something you rarely, if ever, mention).
Remember, it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

 

[Christ4Ever]

As nobody is perfect in the physical, then the question you ask (with it's obvious direction to the law, that you wish to take it) would condemn everybody.

Not at all my brother Barny. I do not wish to take it or you anywhere at least not where you think, and only where I haven't seen anyone else go! I'm working on a reply that I told you would require another posting in my previous one. (This one doesn't count
Love you brother.
YBIC
C4E

 

[brakelite]

The important issue that we differ on is that the doctrine you follow seeks to judge our righteousness by works of the law. Works of the law is what you focus on.

But scripture consistently preaches on believing on Jesus (something you rarely, if ever, mention).

Hello Barney. I agree with you concerning belief in Jesus. The just shall live by their faith. From Genesis to Revelation it is abundantly clear that what frustrates God's purposes for man more than any other thing is unbelief. Doubt. That man should ever disbelieve God's word must be very painful to He who cannot lie. You must have missed the many times I repeated that no-one can live a righteous life without Jesus. That it is faith in His power to overcome sin, faith in His promises to do so, that we overcome. I have said this many many times. Here is an example....http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/46508-creative-power-god.html#.UjTtYcZuqSo Now to address your first statement above, judging according to the law. First Barney, I judge no-one. Because I recommend righteous and holy living does not mean that I am setting myself up as a judge. The law Barney is a measure of a persons righteousness, whether Christian or not. However, that is not the way I would express it. Rather, I would suggest that the law is a measure of a persons love.
Now if we are who we claim to be, that is children of God with "Christ in us , the hope of glory" (Col.1:27) , and "His law written not on tables of stone, but on the fleshly tables of our heart", (2 Cor. 3:3) , that law being the very same law that was on stone, the very law James speaks of being "the perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25) and by which all men will be judged (James 2:8-12) then just as Paul says in 2 Cor., our lives must reflect our profession. "Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men.....but we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord". (2 Cor. 3:2,18)

Now we know that God is love. If He is therefore abiding in us, and His Spirit "working both to will and to do His good pleasure", and we, being predestined to be changed into the image of Christ, that being the character of Christ, then it is God's love, above all other aspects of His character, that is "imparted" to the genuine child of God. This love Barney is plainly and clearly made manifest by the actions, the character, the lifestyle, the every day behaviour, thoughts, motives, of the child of God, and because love "is the fulfilling of the law", and because upon the commandments to love God and love our neighbour "hang all the law and the prophets", then it follows both exegetically, logically, and reasonably, that the measure of a man's love would be recognised in comparison to God's laws.

This love Barney,engendered by the Spirit of the living God abiding in us, which Paul places such high value to, (1 Cor. 14) is the enabling power by which we keep all God's commandments. This love is the first of the fruits of abiding in the vine, a natural and inevitable result of being associated with the God of love. This love doesn't come naturally to our fleshly carnal natures; it is a gift that comes to us by faith.

 

[Barny]

You must have missed the many times I repeated that no-one can live a righteous life without Jesus. That it is faith in His power to overcome sin, faith in His promises to do so, that we overcome

I do recall that you said this many times. And it's this that I challenge, as you clearly indicate that you do not see any Christians as being righteous/sinless without perfect obedience to the law. You argue that it's a gradual process whereby we eventually overcome sin and eventually become righteous, by faith in God that He will achieve this state in us.

But as I said to you before, the thief on the cross did not go through this process.
That thief on the cross was imputed with righteousness. His sin was washed away so that he was clean, without sin. That's what we have when we believe on Jesus. Jesus set us free from sin, John 8:36.

The doctrine you follow rejects this as it demands to see physical proof of perfect obedience to the law before it believes one is righteous.

I judge no-one. Because I recommend righteous and holy living does not mean that I am setting myself up as a judge. The law Barney is a measure of a persons righteousness, whether Christian or not. However, that is not the way I would express it. Rather, I would suggest that the law is a measure of a persons love.......
...., our lives must reflect our profession.

I agree the law is the measure for righteousness.
Jesus meets that measure for righteousness.

Fortunately for Christians, our life is hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3.). And being in Christ we share in his righteousness.
Hence our righteousness is not based on our our physical behavior/lifestyle/perfect obedience to the law.
Thus we see in Rom 10:4
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to everyone that believes,

the measure of a man's love would be recognised in comparison to God's laws.

This love Barney,engendered by the Spirit of the living God abiding in us, which Paul places such high value to, (1 Cor. 14) is the enabling power by which we keep all God's commandments

We both argue for love. But we see this love very differently.

For you, love is keeping the law/10 commandments perfectly. And by this it's judged whether one is righteous or not.

For me, love does no ill to another. Love also forgives 7x70, which is especially relevant in this flawed world we live in where Christians are each at different stages of growth and facing their own unique circumstances/challenges. So just as God showed His love/grace towards us, we likewise show love/grace towards one another, forgiving 7x70.
But regarding righteousness, that was imputed to believers when they believed on Jesus.

 

[Brighthouse]

Simple law? Look at what we have because of the law?? LOL Bondage for those under it! We all understand why there are laws the govern us here.Rom 13 speaks very clearly on this! The purpose of the law has always been, and will always be to show how imperfect man is to keep any law! Of course we have to have them on the earth! All I am saying is a believer for his or her salvation cannot place themselves under the Old Law,for if they do,then they are saying that Jesus is nor better then stone, and hence has fallen from the grace. Jesus gave to that person.Gal 5:1-6 look close at verse 4! refer to the conflict in Acts 15 many had in this one area.Grace is not the freedom to sin,grace is not worked for,it is not merited in any way by what we do,rather upon the belief of all our Jesus did on the cross when he nailed the old law upon it. ( col 1:13-14) and col 2:13-16! verse 14!

I hope this is more clear.Some people look to mix the old with the new,this cannot be,for either one must live under the law,or under what our Jesus provided to us.People may live under any way they wish to believe,however the outcome of ones own life clearly shows the fruit of ones belief. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,nor can a good tree bear bad fruit.Many believe a tree can bear both,I do not. Look close please at Matt 13:19-23 believing comes on 4 different grounds 1. No response verse 19 2. emotional response verse 20-21 3. worldly response verse 22 and finally the only response that bear any fruit! 4. fruitful verse 23.

The only work a believer is to have,is to truly believe,and each of our actions shows to another as well as to ourself what we truly believe. Showing at least to me anyway,that one out of every four who say they believe, truly believe. This would classify to me how the word few comes into play in Matt 7:13-19 I believe truly many will be very surprised upon the last day! Hence why we each day examine ourselves( 2 cor 13:5) We are all a work in progress!( Philp 1:6) Lets look close at a verse from a book many people pass on. It comes right after Titus,Philemon 1:4-7!!! Look hard at verse 6!! And i pray that the fellowship of your faith may become effective!! through the knowledge of every good thing which is IN YOU!!!! for Christ sake! 2 peter 1:3-11!!! We are effective when we acknowledge our Jesus in every area of our lives!! proverbs 3:6) believing does this.Thank you Lord for your Word,and thank you Lord for your wisdom concerning each of us in how we are to follow!!( or believe!!!) amen

 

[brakelite]

@Brighthouse. Your very first response to the initial question...What did Jesus mean when He said, "Go and sin no more", has set the tone for the remainder of the thread. The 'law' or 'no law' controversy. Your response was to the effect that there is now no law to condemn the sinner, therefore there is no sin, therefore Jesus admonition to the woman caught in adultery is now irrelevant.
Aside from that particular controversial subject, upon which all and sundry have shared their views, (and no doubt will continue to do so) we have unfortunately lost the specific context and meaning of Jesus first admonition. What did Jesus mean when He said to the woman,"go and sin no more"? Did He mean for the woman to try her best...don't ever commit adultery again...don't ever sin again...or something else?

At first I think we need to discover what that meant for the woman herself, then we may discover what that may mean for us 2000 years on. The key to understanding I believe is Jesus words to her just prior to His admonition to "sin no more", that is "neither do I condemn thee". Here the Lawgiver of Sinai was using His authority and prerogative as the divine Son of God, and as thus the one against whom transgression has been made, to forgive this transgression against the 7th commandment. He does not do so by removing the law, but by grace removing the transgression. And later of course He sealed this transaction with His own life. Inherent in Jesus forgiveness is His power. When God speaks things happen. Creative power is inherent in the words of the Creator. When Jesus says "go and sin no more" He wasn't asking something that the woman would find impossible to accomplish. With Jesus words He gives power. Creative power...that is the ability to make something out of nothing. That woman had nothing to offer Christ in mitigation or excuse. She knelt before Her Savior a sinner. No denials. No excuses. When Jesus forgives, we are born again. That woman went away a new woman, a new creature or new creation in Christ.
This concept was never simply a new testament concept. God has always been in the practice of making new people out of nothing. All the great men and women of faith in the OT were such because they were born again of the Spirit of God. Jesus showed 'surprise' that Nicodemus didn't know this. Abraham was made a great man of faith from being an idolater in a pagan nation. Noah accomplished none of his great exploits in his own strength, nor in his carnal nature. And several of the prophets vividly describe the moment that are born again, Isaiah being one that comes to mind.

1 ¶ In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
Isa. 6:5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

This is what takes place when we are confronted with the law, which is a transcript of the character of God. When we see the law, we see God's holiness and righteousness. As Isaiah did,and as the woman caught in adultery did, we recognize our sinfulness, and confess our helplessness before the law. God desires however that we may know Him, so what does He do? He removes the transgression. He forgives our sin...the law still stands...but our guiltiness before the law has been removed.

Another example from the OT of this concept is found in Zechariah.

Zech. 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.



Notice in the above account that the taking away of the filthy garments is the same as causing the iniquity to pass from the person. And so we find that when Christ covers us with the robe of His own righteousness, He does not furnish a cloak for sin but takes the sin away. And this shows that the forgiveness of sins is something more than a mere form, something more than a mere entry in the books of record in heaven, to the effect that the sin has been canceled. The forgiveness of sins is a reality; it is something tangible, something that vitally affects the individual. It actually clears him from guilt, and if he is cleared from guilt, is justified, made righteous, he has certainly undergone a radical change. He is, indeed, another person, for he obtained this righteousness for the remission of sins, in Christ. It was obtained only by putting on Christ. But <q style="margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 14px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.5em;">if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.</q> 2 Cor. 5:17. And so the full and free forgiveness of sins carries with it that wonderful and miraculous change known as the new birth, for a man cannot become a new creature except by a new birth. This is the same as having a new, or a clean, heart.
The new heart is a heart that loves righteousness and hates sin. It is a heart of willingness to be led into the paths of righteousness. It is such a heart as the Lord wished Israel to have when he said, <q style="margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 14px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.5em;">O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!</q> Deut. 5:29. In short, it is a heart free from the love of sin as well as from the guilt of sin. But what makes a man sincerely desire the forgiveness of his sins? It is simply his hatred of them and his desire for righteousness, which hatred and desire have been enkindled by the Holy Spirit.

And what of this for us today? It hasn't changed. It isn't the law that has been removed or altered or changed. It is us. There was never any fault with the law. The fault is with mortal sinful human beings, who desperately need the power of God in their lives to change and to be born again that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Brighthouse]

Thank you brakelite for your thoughts.You said that I said there is no sin?? HEHE If you believe i said that, then that would make mean I am a very big lier! i sure hope you did not get that out of what I said! Ok Go and sin no more,staying away from the law,here is what I believe Jesus was indeed saying to the woman. First, how can we go and sin no more? Is this possible? lets us look at something.eph 1:3-4 verse 4 that we would be blameless before him. In what brother??LOVE! Can the Spirit of our Lord dwell where there is sin? I sure do not believe that he can or even would.

So where is Jesus in us?We know he is in us! but where? God is Spirit,and before our flesh was created, there was only the parent realm, the Spirit realm! The realm which we dwell in requires another realm to become created by God so that the worldly realm can be interacted with. It is my humble belief and many may not share this, which is ok with me,that Jesus dwells in our spirit realm,a realm which in effect we truly are in him. example. one becomes ill,the flesh tells us this,and our mind confirms this with the words we speak according to the situation we find ourselves in.

But the parent realm,the realm which first came to be, does not associate itself with this realm. For in Christ Jesus there is no sickness,no worry,no problems of any kind.But we have freedom from our Jesus to BELIEVE!!!! what we wish to!( gal 5:13-15!)Sorry the law is metioned here in verse 14 i just wanted us to see the full context of freedom is all bro. The apostle Paul looked to show the problem we have when he spoke of the difference we all have in our flesh in rom 7:15-25)The struggle with self. Where we choose to dwell in, greatly shows what we truly believe in as being first in our lives.If we believe fully in the realm we are a part of,then we have the effects of that realm.( Philemon 1:6) And i pray that the fellowship of your faith may become effective through the knowledge of every good thing which is IN YOU!!!! for Christ Sake! The point!

When you look into the mirror at home, you see the realm you are presently in.The Word of God is the mirror to the parent realm! If our minds are trained upon God's word for our lives, and we speak only from the mirror of God's word we are shown,then we become the children of our very parent realm! It sure does take discipline!! For we are going against the realm we dwell in! But the only reason for this present realm is so Jesus can interact with his people as he did when he was upon the earth in flesh. I hope this is not getting to deep for many!! hehe It is a bit deep i admit!

But I good brother am not telling you anything!! I am only asking you in your own life as I am doing in mine to consider which real truth we wish to live in is all! If we choose to follow after the mirror we see,then we are getting robbed by the devil! For everything outside our flesh which looks to interact with our flesh is only temporal!( 2 cor 4:16-18!!) But the things which are not seen are what?? YES!!! Eternal!! Ever lasting just like our parent Jesus Christ! For in Jesus there is perfect balance,in Jesus we are already seated with him, and are sealed with him!!( eph 1:11-14) eph 2:6-10!! verse 7 so in the ages to come he might show!! The surpassing riches of HIS GRACE!! in kindness towards US!!! in Christ Jesus!!

Go and sin no more,means I am making a way for all of my children to do this. While it is very true our flesh is sinful,it is also very true our spirit in Christ Jesus cannot ever become sinful! For how could our Jesus dwell in us, where this is no balance? How can we have perfect love unless we dwell in our parent realm! We cannot! So the question now becomes this.Are we willing to renew our mind by the mirror God provided us,or by the mirror we look at everyday?This only we ourselves can answer.But I say this! For those of us who are looking through the parent realm in our Lord Jesus,we never, can never!!! Lose the hope He himself gave us!!( rom 15:13!!) For now our mind is looking with the parent eyes Jesus himself gave to each of us, His Word is our mirror brother!! And by acting upon what he says( with his words from his word!!) we are,we become his sons and daughters forever through him! And produce good fruit!!( matt 13:23!!!)

For the seed shown upon this ground lies not in the natural,but rather in the supernatural!! For when the sons and daughters look into this mirror,all they see is Jesus,and Jesus sees us! LOVE perfect!! Forgiveness perfect! All that which is in Jesus is in us because of what Jesus himself did!( 1 peter 4:7-10!) The spirit realm is our parent realm,but so many have been taught in the flesh, that many ignore the true realm we are truly suppose to be in and stay in. May you consider this for your own lives as i have done,I in Christ and he in me can only point in the direction we all should go in and dwell in. We all have the freedom to dwell in the realm we choose. But consider the result of that realm. For all things our flesh dwells in is only temporary.Why would we not wish to look into the mirror provided by our Jesus so that we all can see what is and what will always be through Our blessed Jesus! Go and sin no more! Thanks again!

 

[Barny]

What did Jesus mean when He said to the woman,"go and sin no more"? Did He mean for the woman to try her best...don't ever commit adultery again.....?

What you say above is what many Christians, especially amongst the legalists, believe.

The key to understanding I believe is Jesus words to her just prior to His admonition to "sin no more", that is "neither do I condemn thee". Here the Lawgiver of Sinai was using His authority and prerogative as the divine Son of God, and as thus the one against whom transgression has been made, to forgive this transgression against the 7th commandment. He does not do so by removing the law, but by grace removing the transgression. And later of course He sealed this transaction with His own life.

Agreed.
The law still stands. The law is just, holy and good, Rom 7:12.

How did Jesus "remove the transgression"?

Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

A believer's life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
Therein lies our righteousness/sinlessness/holiness/perfection. Christians abide in Christ and it's his righteousness/sinlessness/holiness/perfection that God sees in us. How can anyone then charge us with sin/unrighteousness? They cannot, because it's Christ that they would be trying to charge.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The new heart is a heart that loves righteousness and hates sin. It is a heart of willingness to be led into the paths of righteousness. It is such a heart as the Lord wished Israel to have when he said, <q style="margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 14px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.5em;">O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!</q> Deut. 5:29. In short, it is a heart free from the love of sin as well as from the guilt of sin. But what makes a man sincerely desire the forgiveness of his sins? It is simply his hatred of them and his desire for righteousness, which hatred and desire have been enkindled by the Holy Spirit.

And what of this for us today? It hasn't changed. It isn't the law that has been removed or altered or changed. It is us. There was never any fault with the law. The fault is with mortal sinful human beings, who desperately need the power of God in their lives to change and to be born again that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

As I showed in scripture above, a Christian's guilt has been removed in that our righteousness is not determined by whether we obey the law perfectly or not. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
It's now Christ in us, the inward man, that God sees.
That new heart in believers, our inward man, delights after the law.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man

And as I said before, being in Christ, therein lies a believer's righteousness/sinlessness/holiness/perfection.

When we believe in Jesus then we are in the Spirit (Rom 8:9, thus the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us.
Christians are to continue to fight the good fight of faith in believing on Jesus. These are the works that shows our faith, John 6:29.

So how can a Christian be charged with sin/unrighteousness?
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner

Legalists makes themselves transgressors/sinners because whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. As legalists are under the law then they can be charged with transgression/sin, and the death penalty applies. And as legalists fail to obey the law perfectly, then they make themselves transgressor/sinners (Gal 2:18).

Now remember that Hagar is symbolic of the doctrine of righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.

Note 1Cor 6:15-19
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot (Hagar/righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24)? God forbid.What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Flee fornication (with Hagar). Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication (with Hagar) sinneth against his own body.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Note above how any sin a man does is outside the body (of Christ). In other words believers cannot be charged with sin (Rom 8:33).

But anyone who rebuilds the law for righteousness, they are fornicating against their own body. Such make themselves a sinner (Gal 2:18).

So we see that it's either grace OR works of the law. You cannot mix these two.
Rom 11:6
if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now brakelite, as for our physical behavior that you seem to be so concerned about, that is totally apart from our righteousness. Therefore your argument that we can see whether someone is righteousness or not by whether they perfectly obey the law, is error.

That physical body is already dead (by faith) because of sin.
Rom 8:10.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin

Christians will all be at different stages of growth so we will see differing levels of improvement in behavior. Some show no improvement. The thief on the cross is one such example. And some show much improvement. But this is not to be judged as evidence whether one is righteous or not.

 

[brakelite]

I believe a mistake you make is in separating the law from Christ. By saying that the "end" of the law means the law's finish, is an error. Rather, the end in this context means its 'goal'. The end purpose of the law is Christ. Christ however cannot be separated from the law, nor vice versa. The law is an expression of God's nature, His character. It is the true measure of God's righteousness. Of His love. As I have often said, the law and love are synonymous. If we are filled with Christ's love, His law is written on our hearts and minds. His law of love. The very same law given upon Mt Sinai and written on the tables of stone. Now written on the fleshly tables of our hearts. It is the divine nature which He gives to us through faith. The new creature created in His image and likeness. An image of love.
Please note the context in time for the following description of God's people.

Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This is God's end-time church. A people of faith. A commandment keeping people. Thus a people of love.
When Jesus said to the woman, "go and sin no more", He meant exactly that.

"Go and keep the commandments. Particularly the one you have had difficulty with, the 7th. But know this, I am with you to strengthen you in times of temptation, My grace is sufficient for thee".

Jesus says the same elsewhere. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Yes, I know that you believe that His only commandment to us is that we believe. But Barney, Jesus didn't say that to the woman. He said "sin no more". The issue is how do we "sin no more"? By our own self efforts? By our own strength? No! By faith! Faith in what? Faith that Jesus has laid aside our guilt and condemnation? Yes, but even more than that. Faith that Jesus' power is sufficient to keep us from sinning ever again! Now friend, if you do not have that kind of faith, if you don't have that much belief, then you believe that Jesus power is insufficient to overcome sin, that the flesh is greater than God's creative power, and man is doomed to continue as slaves to sin till the day he dies. But this is not what the Bible teaches.
What Is Sin? <q>Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law.</q> 1 John 3:4.
<q>All unrighteousness is sin.</q> 1 John 5:17. This is definite; let us hold it well in our minds.


What Is Righteousness? Righteousness is the opposite of sin, because <q>all unrighteousness is sin.</q> But <q>sin is the transgression of the law.</q> Therefore righteousness is the keeping of the law. So when we are exhorted to yield our members as instruments of righteousness unto God, it is the same as telling us to yield ourselves to obedience to the law.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

This is not legalism. I am not advocating obedience as a form of justifying oneself before God. But I am advocating obedience as a natural fruitage of having the love of God implanted in the soul.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

It would seem the Apostle agrees with me.

You said Barney:
Legalists makes themselves transgressors/sinners because whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. As legalists are under the law then they can be charged with transgression/sin, and the death penalty applies. And as legalists fail to obey the law perfectly, then they make themselves transgressor/sinners (Gal 2:18).

To use Romans 3:19 as a reference to use the expression "under the law" is a mistake, as it does not really occur here. It should be <q>in the law,</q> as in Romans 2:12, for the Greek words are the same in both places. The words for <q>under the law</q> are entirely different. Why the translators have given us <q>under the law</q> in this place, and also in 1 Corinthians 9:21, where the term is also <q>in the law,</q> as noted in Young's Concordance, it is impossible to determine. There certainly is no reason for it. The rendering is purely arbitrary. What the verse before us really says is, <q>Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are in the law,</q> or, <q>within the sphere or jurisdiction of the law.</q>
The ideal place to reference "under the law" would be Romans 6:14,15. Many people are fond of quoting this expression, thinking that it forever absolves them from any observance of the law of God. Strange to say, this expression is used as a cover only for non-observance of the fourth commandment. Let's be honest Barney. If it weren't for the 4th commandment we wouldn't be having this discussion. Everyone agrees with the other 9, but repeat the fourth commandment to a man who objects to keeping the sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, and he will say, <q>We are not under the law.</q> Right? Yet that same man will quote the third commandment to a man whom he hears swearing, or the first and second against the heathen, and will acknowledge the sixth, seventh, and eighth commandments. Thus it appears that men do not really believe that the statement that they are not under the law unless they are reminded to keep holy the Sabbath day. So what does "under the law" actually mean?
Sin has no dominion over those who yield themselves servants to righteousness, or to obedience to the law; because sin is the transgression of the law. Now read the whole of the fourteenth verse: <q>For sin shall not have dominion over you; for ye are not under the law, but under grace.</q> That is to say, transgression of the law has no place in them who are not under the law. Then those who are not under the law are those who obey the law. Those who break it, are under it. Nothing can be plainer.
<q>Ye are not under the law, but under grace.</q> We have seen that those who are not under the law are the ones who are keeping the law. Those therefore who are under the law are the ones who are breaking it, and who are therefore under its condemnation. But <q>where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.</q> Grace delivers from sin.
Distressed by the threatenings of the law which we have broken, we flee for refuge to Christ, who is <q>full of grace and truth.</q> There we find freedom from sin. In him we not only find grace to cover all our sin, but we find the righteousness of the law because he is full of truth, and the law is the truth. Psalm. 119:142. Grace <q>reigns</q> through righteousness (or obedience to the law), unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[DHC]

Hello Brakelite.

Would you be kind enough to tell me how you read the following.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

 

[Brighthouse]

The law is love??? Now who is pulling who's chain here??? 1 cor 15:56 but the power of sin itself is the law! Rom 5:12, Rom 7:8-11 Holy yes,loving??? No even close to that! The point where everything changed in the O.T in relationship to God Exodus 19:8!! We will do!! In the hebrew texts and I sure invite you to truly study this brake We will do means, that the people decide they wished to be judged according to there deeds, rather then have grace,and as we all can see from this point on, the relationship between God and man changed a whole lot!! Until Jesus came to full fill the Old Covenant! Look what happens to the relationship to man after this is spoken by the people in the arrogance! verse 12 onward, bounds are now set to take the people and separate the people from God! next chapter the ten Commandments LOVE??? LOL Not even close! condemnation!! ( 2 cor 3:6-18!) ( the letter of the law did nothing but kill,how in the world is there any love in the law??)Then later because of the law 3000 people died!! Exodus 32:28-35!! The law was never about love!! You can show no chapter or no verse! While the law was indeed perfect!! And it truly was perfect!! No man could ever keep the whole law!Which is why Jesus came to complete it, so he could make a better one under much better promises!! I cannot believe brake you said the law is loving at all!! If you were right,there would have been no need for Jesus in the first place!! So please!!! wake up from your sleep! 2 tim 3:16-17!! Sometimes there is a time for much needed correction! and reproof! in love of course!! yikes the law is love??

 

[brakelite]

Hello Brakelite.

Would you be kind enough to tell me how you read the following.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

By all means, however, before I do, I would like to comment further to my post above, for.in studying in relation to another thread, came across a text which confirms that which I have been saying in this thread, and the text is the following:

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Now what is Paul saying here? Is he saying that we ought not seek after the law of righteousness? No, not at all. All Paul is saying is that Israel sought after it in an incorrect manner. The Jews followed after the law of righteousness, but did not attain to it. Why not?<q>Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.</q> How forcefully this sets forth that of which the entire Epistle is a demonstration, namely, that faith does not clear one from the call to obedience, but that by faith alone can the law be kept!

Now to your question DHC,
From the KJV....
Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy .....
( 2647 καταλύω kataluo kat-al-oo’-o from 2596 and 3089; TDNT-4:338,543; {See TDNT 456} v
AV-destroy 9, throw down 3, lodge 1, guest 1, come to nought 1, overthrow 1, dissolve 1; 17

.... the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable

The above verse from Isaiah informs us clearly as to the intentions the Messiah has regarding the law. Jesus did not break, abolish, destroy, offend, disobey, any one of the Ten Commandments spoken by Himself from Mt Sinai and written by His own finger upon the stone tablets. It was never His intention to do so, nor did He. He honoured, obeyed, and kept every commandment. Notwithstanding the carping Pharisees.
Jesus fulfilled every requirement, even to the point of taking upon Himself the sins of all mankind and submitting Himself to the wrath of God for our transgression of it. Jesus certainly magnified the law, teaching and demonstrating the true meaning of the commandments. For instance, to lust is akin to the act of adultery. To be angry without cause is akin to murder. To heal and to do good on the Sabbath is akin to keeping the day holy.
While not lessening any of the physical requirements of obedience, Jesus thus taught that transgression of the law begins in the heart and mind of the sinner. Romans 7 is a resounding echo of Jesus thinking on this.
In the analogy that Paul gives us there are four participants. The woman, the first husband, the second husband, and the law. We are represented as the woman. This is clear from the statement that we are <q>married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead,</q> which is Christ. He (Christ) therefore is the second husband. The first husband is indicated in verse 5: <q>When we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.</q> Death is the fruit of sin. The first husband, therefore, was the flesh, or <q>the body of sin.</q>
Now tell me DHC. Which participant died?
The woman?
The first husband?
The second husband?
Or the law?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Go and sin no more?

Does he mean be sinless?

or try to not sin?

I think it means "surrender your lifestyle to my Spirit" a.k.a dying to self. I've been surrendering my lifestyle to Him for some years and its been my experience that over time, He has changed the way I live. As His love grows in my heart, the sin in my life loses more and moreof its appeal; it stops controlling me.

SLE

 

[brakelite]

The law is love??? Now who is pulling who's chain here??? 1 cor 15:56 but the power of sin itself is the law! Rom 5:12, Rom 7:8-11 Holy yes,loving??? No even close to that! The point where everything changed in the O.T in relationship to God Exodus 19:8!! We will do!! In the hebrew texts and I sure invite you to truly study this brake We will do means, that the people decide they wished to be judged according to there deeds, rather then have grace,and as we all can see from this point on, the relationship between God and man changed a whole lot!! Until Jesus came to full fill the Old Covenant! Look what happens to the relationship to man after this is spoken by the people in the arrogance! verse 12 onward, bounds are now set to take the people and separate the people from God! next chapter the ten Commandments LOVE??? LOL Not even close! condemnation!! ( 2 cor 3:6-18!) ( the letter of the law did nothing but kill,how in the world is there any love in the law??)Then later because of the law 3000 people died!! Exodus 32:28-35!! The law was never about love!! You can show no chapter or no verse! While the law was indeed perfect!! And it truly was perfect!! No man could ever keep the whole law!Which is why Jesus came to complete it, so he could make a better one under much better promises!! I cannot believe brake you said the law is loving at all!! If you were right,there would have been no need for Jesus in the first place!! So please!!! wake up from your sleep! 2 tim 3:16-17!! Sometimes there is a time for much needed correction! and reproof! in love of course!! yikes the law is love??

I agree with you that Israel's declaration to obey all of God's commandments was a bad move, in fact this was the very faulty promise alluded to by Paul in Hebrews, and the whole reason God established another covenant. Their promise was faulty, not only because God didn't require any promise of them, (for the just were always to live by faith) but they broke it very shortly after. The new covenant doesn't repace the law with love. He writes the law upon our hearts by filling us with His love. It is His love i us that enables, empowers us to obey the law. Of course the law is love. It is an embodiment of the character of God's righteousness. Is not God love? The Ten Commandments weren't an arbitrary list of rules like some code of conduct for the local sports club. They were an expression of who God is!

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

<q>Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.</q> 1 John 4:7.

<q>This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.</q> 1 John 5:3.

Some have supposed that verses 8-10 of Romans 13 define the limit of civil authority, and show that men may legislate concerning <q>the second table of the law,</q> but concerning no other portion of the law of God. Two things kept in mind will show the fallacy of this:
(1) The epistle is not addressed to rulers, but to individual Christians, as a guide for their private conduct. If the duty of rulers were here laid down, they, and not the brethren, would have been addressed.
(2) <q>The law is spiritual,</q> and consequently none of it is within the power of human legislation. Take the commandment, <q>Thou shalt not covet;</q> no human power could enforce that, or tell if it was violated. But that commandment is no more spiritual than the other nine. The language is addressed to the brethren, and the sum of it is this: Live in love, and you will wrong no man; you will not steal, you will not lie, you will not commit adultery, you will not covet that which does not belong to you, you will not dishonor you parents, you will not murder, assault, slander, gossip, back-bite, abuse, or do anything else that would harm, hurt, or insult anyone; you will honour all of God's commandments,and need have no fear of any rulers, including God. Hence love is the fulfillment of the law.

<q>Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.</q> Rom. 13:7, 8. If you do this, you live peaceably with all men, as far as lies in you. If you love your neighbor as yourself, that is the fulfilling of the whole law; because to love one's neighbor one must love God, because there is no love but of God. If I love my neighbor as myself, it is simply because the love of God is abiding in my heart. It is because God has taken up abode in my heart, and there is no one on earth who can take him away from me. It is for this reason that the apostle refers to the last table of the law, because if we do our duty toward our neighbor, it naturally follows that we love God.

Sometimes we are told that the first table points out our duty to God, and constitutes religion, and that the last table defines our duty to our neighbor, and constitutes morality. But the last table contains duties to God just as much as the first one. David, after he had broken two of the commandments contained in the last table when making his confession said: <q>Against thee, thee only, have I sinned and done this evil in thy sight.</q> God must be first and last and all the time. . . .

Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.....
.....11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Brighthouse, we are called to love. The Ten Commandments teach us what that means.

 

[DHC]

Now to your question DHC,
From the KJV....
Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy .....
( 2647 καταλύω kataluo kat-al-oo’-o from 2596 and 3089; TDNT-4:338,543; {See TDNT 456} v
AV-destroy 9, throw down 3, lodge 1, guest 1, come to nought 1, overthrow 1, dissolve 1; 17

.... the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable

The above verse from Isaiah informs us clearly as to the intentions the Messiah has regarding the law. Jesus did not break, abolish, destroy, offend, disobey, any one of the Ten Commandments spoken by Himself from Mt Sinai and written by His own finger upon the stone tablets.

Hello Brakelite.

I asked a simple question and I should have known better.

I will respond to the multiple points, one at a time though.

I asked you how you read the following.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

Then you replied with the following statement.

"Jesus did not break, abolish, destroy, offend, disobey, any one of the Ten Commandments"

I noticed that you assumed that the phrase 'the law' means the ten commandments.

How do you know that 'the law' is referring to the ten commandments?

 

[brakelite]

Hello Brakelite.

I asked a simple question and I should have known better.

I will respond to the multiple points, one at a time though.

I asked you how you read the following.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

Then you replied with the following statement.

"Jesus did not break, abolish, destroy, offend, disobey, any one of the Ten Commandments"

I noticed that you assumed that the phrase 'the law' means the ten commandments.

How do you know that 'the law' is referring to the ten commandments?

Hi DHC, that is quite easily answered, for we know that the ceremonial law was certainly fulfilled through the ministry, both earthly and heavenly, and death and resurrection of Christ. The moral law however can never be abolished destroyed or abrogated, for as the Psalmist says,
Psalm 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

Unless of course David you are suggesting the ceremonial law still applies? What I am basically saying David is that the rest of scripture testifies to the permanence of the Ten Commandments, and to the temporary nature of the law of Moses.

 

[DHC]

Hi DHC, that is quite easily answered, for we know that the ceremonial law was certainly fulfilled through the ministry, both earthly and heavenly, and death and resurrection of Christ. The moral law however can never be abolished destroyed or abrogated, for as the Psalmist says,
Psalm 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

Unless of course David you are suggesting the ceremonial law still applies?

Hello Brakelite.

You need to supply the scripture that specifies that 'the law' means the ten commandments.

I read the following verse.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

As the whole law because Jesus uses the phrase 'the law'.

If Jesus was referring to the artificial separation of the ten
commandments would He not have said so.

Besides Matthew 5 refers to laws outside of the ten in the
same discourse as Matthew 5:17.

 

[DHC]

By all means, however, before I do, I would like to comment further to my post above, for.in studying in relation to another thread, came across a text which confirms that which I have been saying in this thread, and the text is the following:

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Now what is Paul saying here? Is he saying that we ought not seek after the law of righteousness? No, not at all. All Paul is saying is that Israel sought after it in an incorrect manner. The Jews followed after the law of righteousness, but did not attain to it. Why not?<q>Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.</q> How forcefully this sets forth that of which the entire Epistle is a demonstration, namely, that faith does not clear one from the call to obedience, but that by faith alone can the law be kept!

Hello Brakelite.

You provided an interpretation of the following verses from Romans.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Your interpretation is below.

"Now what is Paul saying here? Is he saying that we ought not seek after the law of righteousness? No, not at all. All Paul is saying
is that Israel sought after it in an incorrect manner. The Jews followed after the law of righteousness, but did not attain to it. Why not?
Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law."

How about we provide the previous verse to Romans 9:31 which should provide
a clearer interpretation.

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness,
attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;

There you go Brakelite, the Gentiles attained righteousness by faith.
This is the same righteousness that Abraham was credited with.
Incidentally Abraham was reckoned righteous way before the law!

The Gentiles never had the law to follow in the first place. Hence the
Gentiles would never be able to pursue a 'law of righteousness'. Ever
wondered why a Gentile is called a Gentile?