Who goes through the tribulation?

[Beetow]

● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into
blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead man is in
a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and the stench of
dead fish, and all else, will make for quite a chowder to behold.

The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken of
here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of Earth's
oceans.

A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea, e.g.
ponds and lakes.

● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of
water, and they became blood.

The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe than that
of Egypt because this is global rather than limited to one specific country. Even so;
Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water anywhere for either
cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex 7:19-20)
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 16:13-15 . . Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came
out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth
of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and
they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the
great day of God Almighty.

. . . Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his
clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.

There is much disagreement in our day as to signs indicating the extraction
described by 1Thess 4:16-17, but the events depicted in Revelation are neither
vague, typical, nor debatable. When all that stuff begins coming to pass, smart
ones will be on the lookout for a really big surprise.

● Matt 24:27 . . For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to
the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.

WHAM!! on scene, locked and loaded.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 16:21 . . And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone
about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of
the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Talents were gross units of gold equal to about 75-100 pounds.

Dropping a hail of boulders that size from the sky all over the globe will be like a
deadly implosion smashing, bashing, and crushing most everything it touches:
homes, barns, super markets, strip malls, sports arenas, theaters, forests,
pastures, crops, vehicles, etc.

The natural world will surely experience significant damage among the critters who
live above ground, e.g. hogs, deer, elk, ducks, geese, turkeys, cows, mustangs,
monkeys, gorillas, lions, tigers, hyenas, elephants, giraffes, etc.

Just imagine being caught out in the open when that hail starts. Finding adequate
shelter from such a bombardment of ice will be very difficult and no doubt
frightened people will be shrieking and screaming in mortal panic.

Curiously, numbers of people will know the hail is from God but it won't persuade
them to consider making peace with Him, instead; the hail will just make them
angry.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 19:19-21 . .Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies
gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the
beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the
miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had
received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

. . .The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest
of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the
horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

The potent weapon proceeding from that person's mouth is speech; which causes
me to wonder why more people weren't afraid of Jesus back in his day because if
by speech he could cure leprosy then by speech he could've caused someone to
come down with leprosy; and if by speech he could energize a crippled man's legs,
then by speech he could've put somebody in a wheel chair; and if by speech he
could restore someone's corpse to life, then by speech he could've made people
drop dead to the floor; and if by speech he could cure blindness, then by speech he
could've put people's eyes out; and if by speech he could multiply loaves and
fishes, then by speech he could've caused famine; and if by speech he could calm a
storm, then by speech he could've caused a hurricane, a typhoon, and/or a
tornado.

David's combat with Goliath was an encounter that was possible for David to win;
but I see no chance of anybody's success in a fight with Christ when he has at his
disposal all the miraculous abilities of the supreme being who, according to the
book of Genesis, created a fully functioning cosmos-- all its forms of life, matter,
and energy --by nothing more than His voice.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 20:1-2 . . And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the
bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that
old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.

● Rev 20:7-9 . . And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed
out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four
quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the
number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the
earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire
came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Old Testament describes the quality of the millennium as an era of unparalleled
justice, equity, peace, and prosperity. I really have to wonder exactly what it is
about Messiah's administration that will dissatisfy the Gogites and Magogites
enough to try and overthrow him. And how will the Devil manage to persuade them
it's even possible?

Back in my days as a kid, there was a saying going around that went like this:
"That man is so convincing he could sell refrigerators to the Eskimos". Well; I would
be very interested to know how the Devil is going to pull off something very similar
to that in his campaign to convince folks they'd be better off with their own selves
at the helm instead of Christ.

But you know, what it really all boils down to is control. There are folks who just
simply don't care to be governed by the likes of God; as it says in the 2nd Psalm:

"Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth
take their stand, and the rulers gather together against The Lord and against his
Anointed one. Let us break their chains-- they say --and throw off their fetters."
_

 

[Oseas]

● Rev 20:1-2 . . And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the
bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that
old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.

Greetings in Christ JESUS
Beetow

Reading the verse above, I meditated and pondered deeply the revelation of our Lord JESUS through the former sealed book - Apocalypse - whose seven seals were broken by Him, and in my vision, where is written John saw an angel come down from heaven, according the translater, in fact he is an Archangel -Arch-angel- . Actually, the seventh Trump sounds by him: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16KJV
15 We say unto you by the Word of the Lord (the Word is GOD), that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Arch-angel- , and with the Trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. <----> Based in this prophecy, in my vision the NAME of this Arch-angel is Michael, as is revealed in Daniel 12:1-3:
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people ( here's he: Joshua 5:13-15 among other biblical references), and there shall be a time of trouble(Matthew 24:15), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake (RESURRECTION), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Revelation 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven(heaven? it's a celestial environment of the New Testament where we still are-Ephesians 1:3 among other biblical references): Michael and his messengers fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his messengers,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven (in this current celestial environment of the New Testament where we still are-Ephesians 1:3 and Philippians 3:20-21. Take a look.).

9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (in this current celestial environment of the New Testament where we still are-Ephesians 1:3 and Philippians 3:20-21), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our GOD(according Revelation 11:15-18. Take a look.) , and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night.

11 And they (the true believers) overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens(rejoice true believers celestial environment of the Old and New Testaments-Hebrews 10:5-18. Take a look.), and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea!(Gentile nations-Revelation 17:15.Take a look.) for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

1 Corinthians 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory:

Amen

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 20:11 . .Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.

Him seated on the throne is of course Christ because God delegated His son to
handle Heaven's legal affairs.

● John 5:22-23 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the
Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

● Acts 17:31 . . God has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the
man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from
the dead.

Christ's crucifixion factors into justice for believers so that they need not fear "the
man" especially since it was himself who endured the cross for their benefit.

● Rom 8:34-35 . . Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More than
that: who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God, and is also interceding for
us.

So then; were believers to stand before the great white throne, Jesus would be
conflicted because his obligation to them in a court of law is defense rather than
prosecution. Well; if he steps down to defend, then who's to preside on the bench?
No; I think we may safely assume that if believers come to that event at all, they
will come as spectators rather than defendants.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 20:13 . .The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave
up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he
had done.

Death and Hades are paired together in Rev 6:8 where death consists of folks
losing their lives by reason of war, starvation, fatal encounters with wild things,
plus other causes, e.g. accidents and common ailments, e.g. cancer, stroke, heart
attack, pneumonia, kidney failure, and diabetes, etc.

Hades is translated from a Hellenistic word for the afterlife where everybody goes
when they pass away regardless of age, race, gender and/or religious preference:
even Jesus spent some time there. (Ps 16:8-10, Acts 7:25-31)

In other words: folks in Hades are there in a non physical form for now but later
will be reunited with their bodies to face justice at the great white throne event.
This of course would include the folks whose bodies were claimed by water, viz: the
sea.

How many folks are we talking about? I don't really know because the numbers will
include everyone all the way back to Cain; and that was a pretty long time ago. But
just for fun; we'll say ten million.

Well, if each individual's judgment takes only thirty minutes each; we're looking at
570+ years of time in court to complete; and that's for only ten million defendants.
I'm guessing there will be considerably more people than that seeing as Christ said
many are called but few are chosen. In other words: the majority.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go down into
silence.

"any who go down into silence" tells about people who have lost all meaningful
contact with God, i.e. He no longer lends them His ear; they're permanently cut off
from His benevolence, viz: The Lord has no interest in them whatsoever and as far
as He's concerned they're dead to Him like old documents disposed in the shredder
because they no longer matter.

* It's conceivable that the outer darkness spoken of in the 8th and 22nd chapters of
Matthew is a sort of reiteration of Ps 115:17. In other words: although folks
alienated from God are in a darkness of sorts already; He hasn't totally abandoned
them yet.

● Matt 5:44-45 . . I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. In
that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For He gives
his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and on the
unjust, too.

Illustrations for Dante's Inferno by the artist Gustave Doré may not be entirely
true, but they sure do a good job of impressing the total and complete absence of
God's benevolence in the netherworld.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Rev 20:14 . . Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.

* When this comes to pass, Hades will be vacant seeing as how its contents were
all subpoenaed to face justice at the great white throne.

FAQ: How does one put Death to death?

REPLY: This may be accomplished ceremoniously seeing as Death is on track to be
abolished. (1Cor 15:26 and 2Tim 1:10)

FAQ: According to Jonah 2:2, Jonah 2:6, and Luke 16:19-31, Hades is a spirit world
located somewhere deep underground. How will it be taken out of the Earth and
moved to the lake?

REPLY: Hades may be included in the ceremony suggested above; indicating that
never again will anyone be incarcerated in a place like that even though a section of
Hades is paradise-- but it's not an ideal paradise; there's a better one.

● Rev 20:14-15 . .This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written
in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There's no coming back from the lake. If it's meant to abolish Death and Hades,
then I think it's safe to assume it's meant to abolish everything and anybody else
sent there. And besides; according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29, there is only one
resurrection allotted per person which the dead will use up in order to face justice
at the great white throne event. In other words: the second death is not only
second, but also conclusive, viz: the dead's names aren't in the book of life because
as far as God is concerned, they don't exist. I cannot imagine a worse situation in
darkness than this.
_

 

[lentz]

If the church,the christian has to go through the tribulation,then will Stephen,the apostles and all other christians be raised to suffer? I think not. The church will be raptured before tribulation.

 

[Beetow]

After all is said and done-- the bowls, the seals, the trumpets, the great white
throne scene, and the new cosmos is ushered in after obliterating the old, etc. --a
couple of interesting announcements will be made.

1) "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more
death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the
former things are passed away." (Rev 21:4)

That is very good news because it would be difficult, if not impossible, for folks in
Heaven to be happy while knowing some of their loved ones, their associates, and
their BFF didn't make the cut and instead ended up on the wrong side of things.

* The great white throne event won't be a peaceful scene. I'd imagine that people
will be literally pale with terror, lips trembling, mouths too dry to speak; screaming,
shrieking, sobbing, bellowing and yelping like wounded dogs-- eyes darting about
looking for something, anything, to clutch and cling to as the awful reality of their
fate sinks in; and a powerful force they cannot resist drags them off to a mode of
death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron. I know of no one
who would be happy with memories like that haunting them.

2) "Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to
be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy
continue to be holy." (Rev 22:11)

The people to whom those words pertain, will be stuck with who and what they are
with no chance of ever being any different.

That's good news for the righteous and/or holy because they'll never have worry
about doing something really stupid that results in their eviction from paradise;
whereas it's really bad news for folks who end up on the wrong side of things
because they will forever be unfit to be anywhere else except the lake of fire.
_

 

[Oseas]

If the church,the christian has to go through the tribulation,then will Stephen,the apostles and all other christians be raised to suffer? I think not. The church will be raptured before tribulation.

Have you never read Daniel 12:1-3and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and Matthew 24:15-25 and Revelation 11:15-18 ?

 

[lentz]

Have you never read Daniel 12:1-3and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and Matthew 24:15-25 and Revelation 11:15-18 ?

Yep

 

[Oseas]

Yep

What did you understand or interpret about these biblical revelations to be fulfilled and executed by the Word, in this current time? Are you ready according to Matthew 25:6-8?

Are there really any parallels between Revelation 20:7-10 and Revelation 19?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. The earth as whole is infested of ENEMIES of our Lord JESUS Christ - Jewish and Gentiles - multitudes and multitudes of peoples. Revelation 19:19 - 19 And I saw the beast...

www.christianforums.com

(post #177)

 

[lentz]

What did you understand or interpret about these biblical revelations to be fulfilled and executed by the Word, in this current time? Are you ready according to Matthew 25:6-8?

Are there really any parallels between Revelation 20:7-10 and Revelation 19?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. The earth as whole is infested of ENEMIES of our Lord JESUS Christ - Jewish and Gentiles - multitudes and multitudes of peoples. Revelation 19:19 - 19 And I saw the beast...

www.christianforums.com

(post #177)

You are just mixing and matching scripture

 

[Hekuran]

If the church,the christian has to go through the tribulation,then will Stephen,the apostles and all other christians be raised to suffer? I think not. The church will be raptured before tribulation.

Stephen was stoned to death. He has been through tribulation and endured it faithfully. On the final day he and countless other martyrs will be raised to glory.

 

[lentz]

Stephen was stoned to death. He has been through tribulation and endured it faithfully. On the final day he and countless other martyrs will be raised to glory.

Well I see there is no need to carry on any further. It doesn't really add to or take away from ones salvation which ever position you take.
God bless

 

[Oseas]

You are just mixing and matching scripture

Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD's perspective.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?

 

[Oseas]

If the church,the christian has to go through the tribulation,then will Stephen,the apostles and all other christians be raised to suffer? I think not.

Where are even now Stephen and the apostles, and all other Christians which died in Christ ?
Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Get ready

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful (the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The church will be raptured before tribulation.

You believed in the false preachers of the Word of GOD.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-16
14 If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will GOD bring with him. -The Word is GOD, self-executing.

15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (who is him? Daniel 12:1-3- Take a look.), and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (1Corinthians 15:51-52 : --->51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...to meet the Lord ..and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Be careful or else get ready. The theory or doctrine you posted above will not fulfill because is not TRUE.