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Who goes through the tribulation?

One time my wife for Christmas brought me a $500,00 driver and I could not hit a lick with it, and I didn't tell her. and I gave it away, for a flavor a guy did for me! One club it cost over $500.00 and it through my whole game off and everyone who tried to hit with it. I could not give that Club away!:sob:
 
A liar is someone deliberately says untrue things to mislead or deceive. I'm sure you have not tried to deceive anyone.

But none of us see perfectly, and we all have much to learn. Now we see in a glass darkly.

I'm sure that much of what I believe now is wrong or unbalanced. As I get older and wiser perhaps my understanding will improve.

I don't think I know any Christian that I agree with entirely on every issue. Should I say I am perfect and everyone else is deceived or a deceiver? Or accept that we are fallible humans still seeking after the truth?
Me and your definitions of words might not mean the same when referring to Biblical meanings . like you mention what a liar is. my definition is different completely. if I want to see what the word liar means in theological terms I must look the word liar up in "ISBE" not a collegiate dictionary, I was taught that over 40 years ago.

for years and years I had no regular christians as friend or acquaintance in conversations, I had to learn how to communicate again, just with common people.
Words were the same but deferent meanings in theological terms, and regular English but theological.

example:

Lie; Lying​

li, (sheqer (usually, e.g. Isa 9:15; Zec 13:3), or kazabh verb (Job 34:6; Mic 2:11); pseudos (Joh 8:44; Re 21:27), "to speak falsely," "to fabricate," "to make a false statement"; pseudomai, in Ac 5:3,1):

1. Lying Defined:​

In its very essence, a lie is something said with intent to deceive. It is not always a spoken word that is a lie, for a life lived under false pretenses, a hypocritical life, may be a lie equally with a false word (Jer 23:14). A vain thing, like an idol, may be a lie (Isa 59:4), as also a false system (Ro 3:7). Error, as opposed to truth, is a lie (1Jo 2:21). The denial of the deity of Jesus Christ is regarded as "the" lie (1Jo 2:22).
The origin of lies and lying is traced to Satan who is called "a liar, and the father thereof" (Joh 8:44; Ac 5:3). Satan's dealing with Eve (Ge 3:1-24) furnishes us with a splendid illustration of the first lie, so far as we have any record of it.

2. A Racial Sin:​

The whole race is guilty of this sin: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies" (Ps 58:3). It is a part of the old Adamic nature, "the old man" (Col 3:9), which the believer in Jesus Christ is called upon to put off. So prominent a factor is it in the experience of the race that among the condensed catalogue of sins, for the commission of which men are finally condemned, the sin of lying finds its place: "All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" (Re 21:8 the King James Version).

3. God's Attitude to It:​

God's attitude toward this sin is strongly marked throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament. The righteous are called upon to hate lying (Pr 13:5), to avoid it (Zep 3:13), to respect not those who lie, and utterly reject their company (Ps 40:4; 101:7), to pray to be delivered from it (Ps 119:29). The wicked are said to love lying (Ps 52:3), to delight in it (Ps 62:4), to seek after it (Ps 4:2), and to give heed to it (Pr 17:4). Lying leads to worse crimes (Ho 4:1-2).

4. The Penalty:​

The punishment to be meted out to liars is of the severest kind. They are positively and absolutely excluded from heaven (Re 21:27; 22:15), and those who are guilty of this sin are cast into the lake of fire (Re 21:8). We are reminded of the awful fate meted out to Ananias and Sapphira when they lied to God and man (Ac 5:1-11). God will "destroy them that speak lies" (Ps 5:6), and "he that uttereth lies shall not escape" (Pr 19:5), yea "a sword is upon the liars" (Jer 50:36 the King James Version). The liar is thereby debarred from rendering any true and acceptable worship unto the Lord (Ps 24:4).
The Scriptures abound with illustrations of lying and the results and penalties therefor. A careful study of these illustrations will reveal the subtlety of falsehood. Sometimes a lie is a half-truth, as set forth in the story of Satan's temptation of Eve (Ge 3:1-24). Cain's lie (Ge 4:9) was of the nature of an evasive answer to a direct question. Jacob's deception of his father, in order that he might inherit the blessing of the firstborn, was a barefaced and deliberate lie (Ge 27:19). The answer which Joseph's brethren gave to their father when he asked them concerning the welfare of their brother Joseph is an illustration, as well as a revelation, of the depth of the wickedness of hearts that deliberately set themselves to falsify and deceive (Ge 37:31-32). Even good men are sometimes overtaken in a lie, which, of course, is no more excusable in them than in the wicked; indeed, it is more shameful because the righteous are professed followers of the truth (David in 1Sa 21:2). What more striking example of the heinousness of lying in the sight of God can we have than the fate which befell Gehazi who, in order to satisfy a covetous desire for possessions, misrepresented his master Elisha to Naaman the Syrian whom the prophet had healed of his leprosy: "The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow" (2Ki 5:22-27)? The story of Peter's denial of his Lord, and his persistent asseverations that he did not know Him and was not one of His followers, makes us shudder to think that it is possible for a follower of Christ so far to forget himself as not only to lie, but buttress lying with swearing (Mt 26:72).

5. Pseudos United with Other Words:​

Throughout the Scriptures we find pseudos joined to other words, e.g. "false apostles" (pseudapostolos, 2Co 11:13), so called probably because a true apostle delivers the message of another, namely, God, while these "false apostles" cared only for self. Such are from Satan, and, like him, they transform themselves into angels of light, and sail under false colors. We read also of "false prophets" (pseudoprophetes, Mt 7:15; compare Jer 23:16f),thereby meaning those who falsely claim to bring messages from God and to speak in behalf of God. Mention is made also of "false brethren" (pseudadelphos, 2Co 11:26), meaning Judaizing teachers, as in Ga 2:4; "false teachers" (pseudodidaskalos, 2Pe 2:1), men whose teaching was false and who falsely claimed the teacher's office. We read further of "false witnesses" (pseudomartus, Mk 26:60); by such are meant those who swear falsely, and testify to what they know is not true. So, too, we find mention of the "false Christs" (pseudochristoi, Mt 24:24; Mr 13:22). This personage does not so much deny the existence of a Christ, but rather, on the contrary, builds upon the world's expectations of such a person, and falsely, arrogantly, blasphemously asserts they he is the Christ promised and foretold. It is the Antichrist who denies that there is a Christ; the false Christ affirms himself to be the Christ. Of course there is a sense in which the man of sin will be both Antichrist and a false Christ.
See CHRISTS, FALSE; FALSE PROPHETS; FALSE SWEARING,FALSE WITNESS .
William Evans

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Been at this almost 50 years with no break
from the time I get up in the morning to when I lay down at night. First on my mind in the mornings before my foot hit the floor and the last thing on my mind when I lay down at night. with out fail for almost 50 years and I do not church. or what pastor Givemore has said or preached.
 
Rev 13:9 . . He who has an ear, let him hear.

This particular ear refers to paying serious attention rather than merely auditory
perception. For example:

Deut 29:2-5 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:

. . .Your eyes have seen all that The Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials
and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous
signs and great wonders. But to this day The Lord has not given you a mind that
understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

In other words: Moses' people were attentive to God's providence; and at times
even took it for granted, but were indifferent to His counseling-- oftentimes His
words went in one ear and right out the other, so to speak. Samuel was just the
opposite.

1Sam 3:20 . . And Samuel grew, and The Lord was with him, and did let none of
His words fall to the ground.

During the awful circumstances depicted and described in the book of Revelation,
quite a few folks are going to wake up and begin looking to the Bible for answers.
I'm guessing it will be difficult, and dangerous, trying to locate copies as I suspect
the Beast will initiate something similar to Mao Zedong's cultural revolution and/or
Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 to eradicate competing ideologies.

Nevertheless; just as certain agencies at the Federal level have failed to totally
suppress so-called misinformation relative to the Covid thingy, so the Beast will fail
to prevent every last ear from hearing.
_
 
I'm aware of all of that. But what it has r o do with the subject st hand.
Don't you understand yet?

The message is an analogy of how GOD caught/ "raptured" His people from the land of Egypt and led them with a strong hand to the promised land in Canaan. It was a journey full of dangers, threats, and Satan acting terribly to prevent GOD from forming and to develop a nation as He had promised Abraham, by generating many problems for Moses, and inflaming the people against GOD himself, leading them to worship even a golden calf that they made themselves. GOD had a lot of work with His own people, in the end even Moses was personally harmed and could not enter the Promised Land, a region dominated by Satan through seven peoples that belonged to him and they were the residents of that land.

Now, even now from now on, believers in JESUS must go to meet Him-Matthew 25:6-, and JESUS has revealed that the Archangel Michael will battle with His people against Satan and his followers, his messengers-Revelation 12:10 -12 combined with 2Corinthios 11:13-15- , by the way, it is when even the dead will be raised-1Thessalonians, 4:16- , and then the meek will inherit the earth according GOD's promise, -Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 1:6 and 5:10
.
At this moment, the important thing for the people of GOD is to blow the Trumpet and gather the people of GOD in one body, for now they are scattered in the tangle of denominations, sects, false Christianity, apostasies, and so on, and the wheat needs to be gathered in the barn, next to right of JESUS. The tares is /will be CURSED and burned in eternal fire on the opposite side.

Oh remember, it's not enough to have just a lamp from now on, it's essential to also have olive oil, you know? I say this because it's midnight, the darkness is great, it's time for night terrors spiritually speaking. So, IT'S NOT ENOUGH to just have lamp-the Word of GOD-a lamp for the feet-Psalm 119:105; It's necessary also to have oil, otherwise the lamp will go out, if it hasn't already your lamp gone out for good, but at midnight? In full darkness and terrors by night? Terrible, very terrible.

Even the days to come will be shortened for the sake of the elect, moreover, JESUS warned that if possible even the elect may be deceived, it will be terrible, very terrible, the house has to be built on the Rock, understand? the Rock is JESUS. Be aware that Revelation 11:15-18 will be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on:

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were(will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

THE BATTLE IS AGAINST THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS

Revelation 16:13-15

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 Corinthians 14:8

Get ready

 
Those verses are saying thst Jesus Christ is coming midway in the sky and the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who are alive at that time/ born-again believers / will be gathered up in a twinkling of an eye. Non believers are left here on earth but everyone else will be with Christ.
Then answer this: are we among the dead or the living when this takes place? Is there any verse that guarantees our survival to experience this? If not, then we'll be dead, and from our perspective, this would be the exact same event of the Lord's second coming in Rev. 19-20, that's where Apostle John saw the dead saints are raised to life. The only guarantee is that we're not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thess. 5:9) and we'll be spared from the Great Tribulation (Rev. 3:10), that's because we're already dead waiting to be resurrected.
 
A good starting place for understanding the book of Revelation is to spend some time thinking about what it meant for the first listeners of the book (listeners, not readers Revelation 1:3 ).

We get portraits of the churches it was written to in the opening chapters; the main body of the letter was also written to strengthen them in their discipleship. How would people in Ephesus, Sardis or Laodecia receive these words, and how would the visions help them to endure tribulations faithfully?

Maybe the whole letter was read out to the congregation in a single meeting. How should they pray and reflect on the words? How do the visions inspire them to respond to the challenges and exhortations in chapter 2 and 3?

And then, start to discern what God is saying to us through these words today.
 
A good starting place for understanding the book of Revelation is to spend some time thinking about what it meant for the first listeners of the book (listeners, not readers Revelation 1:3 ).

We get portraits of the churches it was written to in the opening chapters; the main body of the letter was also written to strengthen them in their discipleship. How would people in Ephesus, Sardis or Laodecia receive these words, and how would the visions help them to endure tribulations faithfully?

Maybe the whole letter was read out to the congregation in a single meeting. How should they pray and reflect on the words? How do the visions inspire them to respond to the challenges and exhortations in chapter 2 and 3?

And then, start to discern what God is saying to us through these words today.
The main body is the (near) future fulfillment of all the OT prophecies regarding the second coming and the end of the world. If the OT prophecies are a script, John's vision in Revelation is the movie.
 
The main body is the (near) future fulfillment of all the OT prophecies regarding the second coming and the end of the world. If the OT prophecies are a script, John's vision in Revelation is the movie.
If it's all in our future, the visions would have been irrelevant for people born 2000 years ago. Imagine I gave you a prophetic word that would begin to be fulfilled until at least 4065bc - most people say "So what? I've got enough on my plate today without worrying about the long distant future."
 
A good starting place for understanding the book of Revelation is to spend some time thinking about what it meant for the first listeners of the book (listeners, not readers Revelation 1:3 ).
And then, start to discern what God is saying to us through these words today.

You might be right, but Revelation is a tricky book. :)

Isa 28:9; "To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast?
Isa 28:10; "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"
Isa 28:11; Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
Isa 28:12; He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen.
Isa 28:13; So the word of the LORD to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

2Pet 1:21; For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Acts 17:11; Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Just my personal observations here....
On one hand, you have verses like...

John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

So some people build a doctrine out of this, and say they don't need anyone to teach them anything. "God will teach me what I need to know".
..... and yet, why are there so many divisions? So many different beliefs and denominations? A lot of cults were started by people who went out on their own, got in isolation
and "studied the word" on their own. Almost always this starts out with good intent. .... And of course, "everyone had the Holy Spirit teach them".. right?
You ask anyone in any denomination why they believe what they believe... well it's because "God revealed it to them". So I ask, if God isn't the author of confusion, why is
there so much confusion?

On the other hand, you have verses like...

Prov 27:17; Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

I would say for me personally, this is how I learn best. Sure I can read it by myself. But I learn the most when I discuss it with other believers.
I would say I've read the entire Bible over 50 times. The New testament probably over 100 times. I read a chapter or two almost every day.
A lot of it is familiar by now. ... and yet, still, there is always something new. A new revelation in what I've already read a dozen times.

As much as I hate to admit it... you yourself are one of the people who has sharpened my iron. It may not seem like it, but I read what you say and try to look at it
from your perspective... there have been occasions, you have changed my mind, and you were right about something. In fact, I could say that about dozens of people
here on TalkJesus.

I think there is a lot of value in learning by debate. I should do a study sometime on how often Jesus debated with the Pharisees, even His mother, and in at least two
cases, even Gentiles. Sometimes it was just one sentence... "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." ... and of course in the end, He gives the bread to the dog.. :)
Even the disciples argued over who would get to sit with Jesus on His throne. ( Mark 10:37; )

Sure I don't always agree with everyone, but I listen, I take it to heart, and then I go study it to see if it lines up with scripture.

..... less surprisingly lately, sometimes it does.

I'm all for meditating and asking God to reveal the truth to me, but almost always, the answer is in scripture. Not in the meditation.

Sure Revelation was written to seven Gentile churches in modern day Turkey. But it also talks about 144,000 Jews. Gog and Magog, the Euphrates ( a long way from Turkey )
The New Jerusalem, ( also a long way from Turkey ) .. and it uses phrases like ...

the kings of the earth, a third of the earth, a fourth of the earth, the nations of the earth, the merchants of the earth and "ALL" who live on the earth, etc...
Are those passages just for those seven churches? What is the entire earth? I suppose America and Australia were unknown at the times this was written ( but God knew )
but even so, that leaves most of Europe, most of western/central Asia, and north Africa, as well as the entire middle east. There are over 60 verses in Revelation
that reference "the earth" as a whole.

When we read verses like.. the sea and hades will give up their dead... is that just the dead of those seven churches?
What about the people in white robes from every nation and race of people? Is that just the seven churches?

Acts 8:29; Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
Acts 8:30; Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Acts 8:31; And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Maybe the Holy Spirit teaches us, I don't deny it.. but maybe He uses people to do that sometimes.
 
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If it's all in our future, the visions would have been irrelevant for people born 2000 years ago. Imagine I gave you a prophetic word that would begin to be fulfilled until at least 4065bc - most people say "So what? I've got enough on my plate today without worrying about the long distant future."

To quote Pilate.. "what is truth"? When is the future for that matter? The future for them could have been tomorrow. Next year, the next decade.. take your pick. Centuries and millennia have passed since then.
There is still a future... for us as well as them.

Rev_16:15; ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")

Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:39; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
1Thes 5:2; For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Thes 5:4; But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
2Pet 3:10; But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

John 14:3; "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
 
If it's all in our future, the visions would have been irrelevant for people born 2000 years ago. Imagine I gave you a prophetic word that would begin to be fulfilled until at least 4065bc - most people say "So what? I've got enough on my plate today without worrying about the long distant future."
Hmmm, nope, not exactly. I believe the seven letters to the seven churches represent the entire 2000 years of church age. Those seven specific churches in modern day Turkey were present time to John. Also, remember the spirit of the Antichrist was already there? And there will be MANY Antichrists - throughout history? From Adam to Abraham to David to the prophets, each one of those biblical heroes was a type - or a model - of Christ; likewise, each tyrant from Nero and there on was a type - or a model - of the Antichrist. Satan has been raising these antichrists over the entire church age, at the end, when the time comes, he will manifest as THE Antichrist, the ultimate counterfeit of Christ, and it will be GLOBAL.
 
Hmmm, nope, not exactly. I believe the seven letters to the seven churches represent the entire 2000 years of church age. Those seven specific churches in modern day Turkey were present time to John. Also, remember the spirit of the Antichrist was already there? And there will be MANY Antichrists - throughout history? From Adam to Abraham to David to the prophets, each one of those biblical heroes was a type - or a model - of Christ; likewise, each tyrant from Nero and there on was a type - or a model - of the Antichrist. Satan has been raising these antichrists over the entire church age, at the end, when the time comes, he will manifest as THE Antichrist, the ultimate counterfeit of Christ, and it will be GLOBAL.

Yes, I think that is a better way of reading it. I don't see any evidence at all in the text that the seven churches represent church ages - I know of churches today that resemble each of the seven churches described then.

Revelation is better read as a description of the spiritual reality of the world that these churches lived in. The big challenge is whether they would live by the values of the New Jerusalem or the consuming violence of Babylon. The suffering lamb or the devouring dragon. In the final chapters we see that the lamb is triumphant.

Exactly the same choice today.

There isn't a character The Antichrist in the Bible. And the name never appears in Revelation at all. Anyone who opposes Christ is antichrist.
 
Yes, I think that is a better way of reading it. I don't see any evidence at all in the text that the seven churches represent church ages - I know of churches today that resemble each of the seven churches described then.
Those seven churches don't necessarily have to symbolize seven specific church periods, but all of them as a whole should at least cover the entire church age. It doesn't make sense that the Lord skipped all of that and jumped straight to the end times. Unlike Paul's letters to the churches, Yeshua's letters are more like a final review of their job performance, the good, the bad and the ugly, all laid out in those two chapters. From Rev. 4:1 to the end, it's all about end times, it was still relevant to John and the previous generations because, as I explained, that scenario will be rehearsed over and over again on a local scale, only at the end will it come to pass on a global scale.

There isn't a character The Antichrist in the Bible. And the name never appears in Revelation at all. Anyone who opposes Christ is antichrist.
You can call him the little horn, the sea Beast or the man of sin, "Antichrist" is just a title, and it literally means "IN PLACE OF Christ", not just "opposing to Christ", and that means a counterfeit. Since God manifested himself as a real man, so will Satan manifest himself as a real man, and all who are not saved will believe in him as the messiah. I've read about this view before, that all of this Antichrist/Beast stuff is just the guilt, shame and fear in your head, it's all of a battle in your own head. That is New Age deception from hell. God is a God of clarity and distinction, Babylon is for confusion and deception.
 
Rev 13:9-10 . . If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone
kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and
the faith of the saints.

I think that just might be a reiteration of the perseverance and the faith of Job;
where it's said:

"In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing." (Job 1:22)

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13:15

That of Habakkuk:

"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor
of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off
from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I will rejoice in The Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)

And that of the apostle Paul:

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or
persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: For your
sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
(Rom 8:35-36)

It's generally agreed among conservative Christians that no saved person will enter
the Tribulation; but there will be a large number of lost souls saved out of it;
though at great cost to their welfare. They mustn't allow their misfortunes during
that era to persuade them that they've bought into a fraud.

* Believers are not a protected species; nor are they insulated from the slings and
arrows of outrageous fortune.

When there's a pandemic, they get sick the same as everybody else. When there's
war, they get caught up in it. When there are economic catastrophes like the Great
Depression and the housing bubble of 2008, they lose their jobs and sometimes
their nest eggs. When there are shortages of goods and services, they have to
make do with what there is the same as everybody else. When the weather
becomes disagreeable with tornadoes, hurricanes, and flooding, they lose their
homes right along with non believers. Wild fires in California burn the homes of
believers the same as everybody else's homes. Believers get cancer, they get in car
wrecks, they get taken by crime, nature drops tree limbs on them, and the
postman delivers their mail to the wrong address, etc. etc. etc.

"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you
will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
_
 
Rev 13:11 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two
horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.

This particular beast will be, from all appearances, a seemingly harmless individual,
viz: he won't have the look of a menace.

For example; German SS officer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler had the look of a classic
Mr. Milquetoast; but underneath that facade was an unbelievable capacity for
cruelty, subterfuge, and murder on a grand scale. In other words: you couldn't tell
at first glance that Himmler was a dangerous animal in whose opinion human lives
are inconvenient.
_
 
Rev 13:5a . . And there was given unto the Beast a mouth speaking great things

That's pretty much describes the rhetoric of most every politician, viz: promises of
a better world under the auspices of their own administrative practices.

Rev 13:5b . . and blasphemies

In this scenario, the Beast is God's political opponent. Well political opponents in
today's world make it their mission in life to destroy the other guy's reputation and
call into question his motives. I suspect the Beast's tactics will be no different
because it's to his advantage to emphasize the old God's perceived faults and
failures and show how himself as the new God can do a much better job managing
the world's affairs.

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is
worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be
God." (2Thess 2:3-4)

NOTE: I would imagine that a first order of business for the Beast will be to come

up with a plausible explanation for the world-wide extraction described by 1Thess
4:13-18 wherein nigh unto 2,000 years of deceased Christians will appear out of
thin air all over the globe and join those alive to go up and rendezvous with Christ
in the clouds.
_
 
Rev 13:11-17 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth . . . and he
performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from
heaven to earth in full view of men . . . he deceived the inhabitants of the earth and
ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast . . . He was given power to
give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who
refused to worship the image to be executed.

The dimensions of the image aren't given but I should think it will be large enough
to be imposing.

For example: side by side statues of former North Korean leaders Kim Il sung and
Kim Jong-IL, located on Mansu Hill in Pyongyang, are 22 meters (72+ feet) tall. If
one of those statues ever came to life, it would make quite an impression because
something that big would be very difficult to fake for even a top-notch magician like
David Copperfield.

* The Greek word translated "beast" refers to dangerous animals as opposed to
peaceful critters like goats, sheep, prairie dogs, and squeaky little gerbils.
_
 
It seems everyone has an opinion or thought on this. The answer seems obvious to everyone, and yet, it seems everyone's answer is different.
Which illustrates perfectly my contention that "Eschatology" is just a religious term meaning "Rank Speculation".

BUT HEY!! I have 88 biblical reasons why the tribulation will begin / be half over / will be complete with the associated Rapture having occurred in 1988.

Problem solved.
 
Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every
nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear
God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him
that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis; and
reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty much all it
says is:

1) There's a supreme being.

2) People should not take Him lightly.

3) He deserves to be honored and respected.

4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.

5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of
intelligent design.
_
 
Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If anyone
worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the
hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full
strength into the cup of his wrath.

. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and
of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. There is no
rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who
receives the mark of his name.

The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor darkness.
On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is entirely symbolic
because it says that the folks assigned to the burning sulfur will be given no rest
day or night in a place where supposedly there will be no night.

However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the burning
sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27 says: "Nothing
impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." And also Rev
22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have
the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are
the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the
idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't preclude the
possibility that there will be day and night outside. At an rate; I think we have to
expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it will be perpetual 24/7/365
with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor time off for good behavior. That will
be an awful scene; yet quite possibly a rather ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23
24)

Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey
God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they follow
the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If they follow God
and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up executed.

Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are the
dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest from their
labor, for their deeds will follow them."

One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to God
and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
_
 
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