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Who goes through the tribulation?

@Dave M. There are people in other parts of this world that die for their faith Now. As well as back in the days of Nero. There have always been martyrs ans there's always been trials and tribulations that believers experienced.

No one knows when the rapture is going to happen. No one begs God to come and rescue them from this world.

The John 6 passage. For context start reading at vs 35. It's part of the Jesus is the bread of life passage.
 
the dead in christ are not raised until the last day, the last day is when Jesus Returns,

John 6:39-40

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

I wonder how many who count on this pre-trib rapture to occur would count it a joy to suffer for Christ, or even die for Christ. I wonder if they even think those terms?
Dave, must christians do not know why we were created, and why there is a "pre-tribulation " and why there is a temporary heaven and a temporary earth and why angels were created and why God created the devil and all the demons and why God sent His Son to Created all Creation in which The Father will destroy all temporary creation that his Son created.

And churches and pastors are only interested in building there only kingdoms and no matter how many Millions and millions they put into their kingdoms and buildings year after year their empires and church buildings rot and crumble to the ground, Billions and Billions dollar empires still crumbling and their kingdoms falling. Perishing with the use, Billions casting into the wind, day by day year by year month by month nothing but a waste, which is The Will of GOD.:pensive: The Materials things will crumble and be no more. it is its destiny.

John 6 BSB
…27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.” 28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God? 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”…


The Pre-tribulation is very simple, this event has high lighted through out the "Old Testament" 'Type And Shadows Of That Which Is To Come" why he comes back to get us, is for our Ceremony our Inauguration and our "Coronation" Our Full Adoption and to receive our Full Shared Inheritance .

That is why he is coming to take us to heaven, this is The Promise being FullFilled!!!!!!!!! Giving us the KINGDOM that BELONGS TO GOD! GOD IS GIVING US ALL HE HAS! HE IS GIVING US ALL ETERNITY! ALL POWER EVERYTHING it is OUR INHERITANCE!

Have any one ever read "THE NEW COVENANT" do anyone knows what a COVENANT is?
This is Kindergarten stuff!!! it is like talking to a brick solid wall to many christians, I do not even now what christianity is anymore, Most christians have no idea why God had his son create all creation, they do not know nothing about why Jesus created Angels, they do not know why Jesus created Heaven, they have no idea what The "SHARED INHERITANCE" is. they talk about worldly things politics schools ,careers and natural Israel and natural Jerusalem. world peace and Anti christ and and churches, homosexuals, and full of earthly ways. and most people are good people Meaning that God is a liar, because he declares the opposites, It is a "grace" it is "mercy" it is "Imputed righteousness" there is none good no not one. And the Bible teaches nothing about a "Good Samaritan", It shows about
compassion even by our own enemies and those we hate and at war with us and wish us dead.

How many want Russian soldiers dead, how many want Ukraine soldiers dead, the World spends Trillion and trillions of dollar to kill men. women, and children and babies.

After our Ceremony

we will return as The SONS of The LIVING GOD!!! we are not legally his sons yet, It has to be ratified we are "INDICATIVE" sons of GOD!

The devil is smart, born again christian we are ignorance and love lies and deceptions and still in the dark to the truth! Period!!!!!! The children of This world are much more smarter than us. they believe in the world, and we as the children of God we do not believe in our own GOD's WORDS but We labor so hard to explain the Truth of GOD away! That has been most of our goals is to explain "THE TRUTH" away because it is our nature! we are evil people! and we are no better that the robber, the thief, the murderer, the rapist, the killer of little children, the liars, the homosexuals, we are no better than them. for we are saved by grace. A grace that has not been given to them a mercy that has not been given to them.:pensive: and most of us are still RAGING IN PRIDE AND claiming that we believe and accepted God. that we did something to be able for God to choose, and they must do something too.:pensive:

So many christians makes me, feel so shame I cannot even look up or even be name of any kind of association with that name. they are better than everybody else, because who they have chosen. and they do give God Partial credit but not all. and they are good people.:pensive:


we cannot be reading the same Book.:pensive: I am ashamed of them and never ashamed of "THE WORD OF GOD" and I will never try to explain it away no matter how much it condemns me no matter how much his grace has been given to me. a unworthy vessel that only deserves the "Lake burning with Brimstone and FIRE" with no hint of parole. O what mercy and grace and He died in my place and then called me his own and Adopted me as one of his Sons and then he will give me the Full rights as His only SON, a full Shared Inheritance of his entire KINGDOM he has Given us "ALL" beyond This know Universe that has no end! HisWHOLE KINGDOM that Cannot Perish!
 
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@PloughBoy. You really need to read the Bible to know what's in it. And Please don't suggest what Most people do or don't know about God's Word. Simply Taking time To read it helps.
 
A lot of people say we are not to face God's wrath, I agree,. But these same people say God's wrath is the tribulation, I disagree to a point. God's wrath is not mentioned until Seal 7 in chapter 6. And God has and can will protect his people from his wrath.
In fact we will see the satanic world of Devil being destroyed by the wrath of GOD according Revelation 11:18to15(from the biggest to smallest) but who will escape or will be free from the wrath of GOD? It's our own GOD who reveals and shows us how can that happen, by the way, it is marvelous to read and meditate on this, for our joy and praise to our GOD. Hallelujaaaah!.

The people still remember how GOD caught / raptured His people from the hands of the Egyptian oppressors ruled by Pharaoh.

Let us meditate on the details: Exodus 12:KJV

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 ... and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall sacrifice it in the evening.

Meditation : JESUS is our Lamb. Hallelujaah!

7 And they shall take of the blood, and sprinkle it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.

Meditation: JESUS said: John 6:54-58

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last Day. (the seventh and last Day.This Day arrived)

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: ...

Luke 22:19 - And JESUS took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.


Exodus 12- Continuation from above

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.


13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.


And Moses speaks to the people and gives them last instructions:

19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and sacrifice the passover.

22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and sprinkle the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. (Isaiah prophesied: Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.- Isaiah 26:20)

23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. (Saved by the blood of JESUS)

24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the Lord will give you, according as he hath promised (now, Matthew5:5 and Revelation 5:10. Take a look), that ye shall keep this service.

26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

29 And it came to pass, that at midnight (now according Matthew 25:6) the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; ...

Get ready
 
Dave, must christians do not know why we were created, and why there is a "pre-tribulation " and why there is a temporary heaven and a temporary earth and why angels were created and why God created the devil and all the demons and why God sent His Son to Created all Creation in which The Father will destroy all temporary creation that his Son created.

And churches and pastors are only interested in building there only kingdoms and no matter how many Millions and millions they put into their kingdoms and buildings year after year their empires and church buildings rot and crumble to the ground, Billions and Billions dollar empires still crumbling and their kingdoms falling. Perishing with the use, Billions casting into the wind, day by day year by year month by month nothing but a waste, which is The Will of GOD.:pensive: The Materials things will crumble and be no more. it is its destiny.

John 6 BSB
…27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.” 28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God? 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”…


The Pre-tribulation is very simple, this event has high lighted through out the "Old Testament" 'Type And Shadows Of That Which Is To Come" why he comes back to get us, is for our Ceremony our Inauguration and our "Coronation" Our Full Adoption and to receive our Full Shared Inheritance .

That is why he is coming to take us to heaven, this is The Promise being FullFilled!!!!!!!!! Giving us the KINGDOM that BELONGS TO GOD! GOD IS GIVING US ALL HE HAS! HE IS GIVING US ALL ETERNITY! ALL POWER EVERYTHING it is OUR INHERITANCE!

Have any one ever read "THE NEW COVENANT" do anyone knows what a COVENANT is?
This is Kindergarten stuff!!! it is like talking to a brick solid wall to many christians, I do not even now what christianity is anymore, Most christians have no idea why God had his son create all creation, they do not know nothing about why Jesus created Angels, they do not know why Jesus created Heaven, they have no idea what The "SHARED INHERITANCE" is. they talk about worldly things politics schools ,careers and natural Israel and natural Jerusalem. world peace and Anti christ and and churches, homosexuals, and full of earthly ways. and most people are good people Meaning that God is a liar, because he declares the opposites, It is a "grace" it is "mercy" it is "Imputed righteousness" there is none good no not one. And the Bible teaches nothing about a "Good Samaritan", It shows about
compassion even by our own enemies and those we hate and at war with us and wish us dead.

How many want Russian soldiers dead, how many want Ukraine soldiers dead, the World spends Trillion and trillions of dollar to kill men. women, and children and babies.

After our Ceremony

we will return as The SONS of The LIVING GOD!!! we are not legally his sons yet, It has to be ratified we are "INDICATIVE" sons of GOD!

The devil is smart, born again christian we are ignorance and love lies and deceptions and still in the dark to the truth! Period!!!!!! The children of This world are much more smarter than us. they believe in the world, and we as the children of God we do not believe in our own GOD's WORDS but We labor so hard to explain the Truth of GOD away! That has been most of our goals is to explain "THE TRUTH" away because it is our nature! we are evil people! and we are no better that the robber, the thief, the murderer, the rapist, the killer of little children, the liars, the homosexuals, we are no better than them. for we are saved by grace. A grace that has not been given to them a mercy that has not been given to them.:pensive: and most of us are still RAGING IN PRIDE AND claiming that we believe and accepted God. that we did something to be able for God to choose, and they must do something too.:pensive:

So many christians makes me, feel so shame I cannot even look up or even be name of any kind of association with that name. they are better than everybody else, because who they have chosen. and they do give God Partial credit but not all. and they are good people.:pensive:


we cannot be reading the same Book.:pensive: I am ashamed of them and never ashamed of "THE WORD OF GOD" and I will never try to explain it away no matter how much it condemns me no matter how much his grace has been given to me. a unworthy vessel that only deserves the "Lake burning with Brimstone and FIRE" with no hint of parole. O what mercy and grace and He died in my place and then called me his own and Adopted me as one of his Sons and then he will give me the Full rights as His only SON, a full Shared Inheritance of his entire KINGDOM he has Given us "ALL" beyond This know Universe that has no end! HisWHOLE KINGDOM that Cannot Perish!
Almost everything you say here is wrong. No such thing as a pre-tribulation. What you write is not kindergarten stuff, it's fantasy stuff.
 
I'm aware of all of that. But what it has r o do with the subject st hand.
 
@Hekuran -- apparently you believe either in a mid or post trib rapture.

If by "rapture" you mean Christians being removed from the earth, then the Bible does not teach it at all. Not pre, nor post nor mid. It's a totally misleading idea.

Our hope is in Jesus's return in glory and in the resurrection of our bodies. The New testament says this again and again and again.
 
Almost everything you say here is wrong. No such thing as a pre-tribulation. What you write is not kindergarten stuff, it's fantasy stuff.
You do not have to believe one word that I say I ain't hating. Believe what you want! IF I am Liar let God cast me into the Deepest part of hell!! and curse all of my family and burn them up too! If I am a liar I deserve it. to be cast in The flaming fires of hell.

"I am willing to Die for my FAITH" and if wrong be cast in hells fire! and every thing that belongs to me! if for almost 50 years what I have proclaim among thousands to be wrong and been under the spell of The devil, demons and not GOD.:pensive: and I have not been powered and guide d and led By the Parakletos pf GOD but have been influence by demons and devils.

For He is Immutable:
"Then the LORD said to Moses, “Tell the people to move away from the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.”

And there is were I supposed to be by lying on God and being a Anti Christ and hating the very words of GOD written in the Book.

So be it. and I will not recant, So help me GOD! For here I stand to be nail at the cross and Burn at The Stake as a Heretic. and hang by the neck until dead, Just like the ones before me. since you have declared me as a "HERETIC" for almost 50 years with your words as follows.
and if I was living in the 15th century you would be sure, me and my whole family would die a violent death by your declaration, and since you are a biblical scholar you know this. is the penalty of a "heretic" in which you have declared me, by your words.

your quote: declaring me as a "Demon Devil Worshipping Heretic"
"Almost everything you say here is wrong. No such thing as a pre-tribulation. What you write is not kindergarten stuff, it's fantasy stuff."



"And may The LORD judge between me and you while we are away from one another""
And I am not hating and I recognizing that I am your enemy. so you have declared and I am not hating you, but speaking truth.

Although I know that I am "A CHILD of THE LIVING GOD" and been taught By GOD who is MY [our] FATHER, and my father do not lie.or teach me lies.
But You Have Declared He Have.

Ok, let see what he has to say about you having declared I am spreading lies among his children. and causing them to stumble and fall, and spreading the doctrine of Demons. trying to destroy those he love and sent His Only SON to die for.:pensive:

ok, you think about that and think about it deep in much prayer, because in know way we are brothers in Christ. No way we are of the same Body or of the same Spirit of GOD. No way it is impossible. "for There is "ONE LORD" "ONE FAITH" "ONE FATHER" and "ONE WAY"

So I might be the devil as you so claim that I am his student and carry out His teachings.and doctrines.

but I do believe you are wrong and two wrongs does not make a right. "either we are on the Devils side or on the LORD side" "You cannot split the fence":pensive:

Choose you this Day whom you will serve, if The LORD is God serve Him , "If The Teachings of MAN about GOD is GOD then serve Him"

I know who I am and God don't lie! Men do and some think that JESUS DIED for them and there is no condemnation to those who lie!

Revelation 21: 8 KJV
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, And All Liars, shall have their part in The Lake Which Burneth With Fire And Brimstone: which is the second death.

Nominal christians do not believe this. they are skilled and Crafty in explaining it away. Revelation 21:8
 
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Those verses are saying thst Jesus Christ is coming midway in the sky and the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who are alive at that time/ born-again believers / will be gathered up in a twinkling of an eye. Non believers are left here on earth but everyone else will be with Christ.
 
@PloughBoy I don't think you are a liar and I certainly don't think you are a devil. You are a good man. But a lot of what you said in your earlier post is inaccurate.
 
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Those verses are saying thst Jesus Christ is coming midway in the sky and the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who are alive at that time/ born-again believers / will be gathered up in a twinkling of an eye. Non believers are left here on earth but everyone else will be with Christ.
I read it differently. Jesus is returning to earth as he promised. Our destiny is not heaven, it is here: our bodies will be changed in the blink of an eye and creation itself will be renewed. Then we will reign with him.

Read this alongside the other major passages on the resurrection - 1 Corinthins 15 and Romans 8 and the closing chapters of Revelation.

Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’
 
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@PloughBoy I don't think you are a liar and I certainly don't think you are a devil. You are a good man. But a lot of what you said in you earlier is inaccurate.
You have claim I was by your words of expression, either you a person that is a liar or a person that tells the truth, their is no such thing as a in-between in GOD's TRUTH and You know it.:eyes: it is a "yes or no" and you know it. "ye or nay"

American Standard Version
But let your speech be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: and whatsoever is more than these is of the evil one .

King James Bible
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

So what you said about me is truth.
 
and in God there is no such thing as" inaccurate." and you know it it is either the devil or GOD Truths

I was taught that when I was a young preacher, either you get it right or shut up by Theologians the best in the country and they made me cry, go back and get it right! and do not come back until you do!

and many years later a guy told me "R. C. Sproul" is tough and got it, But he ain't as heavy as you, You are something else with that bible, you got him beat! from that time on I had no dealings with That Preacher! I stop answering His Calls. Ain't no way that I am heavier that "R. C. Sproul":sob: And you just know what "Real Theology is" and it is not the doctrines of Christianity or religion as some think in this time. It is like Golf and you know your irons and woods and driver if you can use one.

Those Theologian made me get it! Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Virginia Union, Union Theological Seminary in New York, you do not have to believe Theology but you must recognize "Sound Theology" in front of you, then the belief, comes later but we must Recognize the TRUTH. we might not like it but we cannot deny it.

WE SHAKE OUR HEADS, and we cast all mens thought far from us, we Stu over it and then God switch the LIGHT ON! our minds does not switch the Light on GOD DOES in his on time before we believe. then we believe. recognize the Truth, you do not have to believe it, But recognize it, then GOD turns the Light on.

His ways are different and past finding out. He confound the wisdom of the wise.

1 Corinthians 1
19For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 20Where is the wise man? Where isthe scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age?Has not God made foolish the wisdom of theworld?
 
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You have claim I was by your words of expression, either you a person that is a liar or a person that tells the truth, their is no such thing as a in-between in GOD's TRUTH and You know it.:eyes: it is a "yes or no" and you know it. "ye or nay"

American Standard Version
But let your speech be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: and whatsoever is more than these is of the evil one .

King James Bible
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

So what you said about me is truth.
A liar is someone deliberately says untrue things to mislead or deceive. I'm sure you have not tried to deceive anyone.

But none of us see perfectly, and we all have much to learn. Now we see in a glass darkly.

I'm sure that much of what I believe now is wrong or unbalanced. As I get older and wiser perhaps my understanding will improve.

I don't think I know any Christian that I agree with entirely on every issue. Should I say I am perfect and everyone else is deceived or a deceiver? Or accept that we are fallible humans still seeking after the truth?
 
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