False ways to be saved

[B-A-C]

According to scripture, what is grace? Does everyone receive the same amount of grace?

I personally would say no.

Luk 7:40 And Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he replied, "Say it, Teacher."
Luk 7:41 "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?"
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."

He give us all the grace we need, but do we all need the same amount?

2Cor 12:9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Luk 7:47 "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

 

[Beans]

James 2:14 is "Can faith save him?"

this is referring to the naked person in need of clothes. Can faith save him? the point was we should use our faith rather to help some one instead of using our faith to say "Go the Lord will provide". because thats the kinda of faith thats dead faith.
Also notice that in the context it says faith doesnt exist its just called dead faith. faith should be put in to action and thus made perfect like james says.

Hi Jari. I think you are missing the point. The question should be can OUR faith save him? You see if your faith is a selfish faith that does not reach out to others, then is it really faith?
To my thinking, the seed that falls on the rocky ground is like the person who takes the first baby steps of faith by accepting the name of Jesus but then refuses (for whatever reason) to continue in faith and accept the lifestyle of Jesus and the early believers.

Having faith means to keep following where GOD leads. Not just burying your talent by keeping God's love to yourself.

Peace. Beans

 

[jari]

Hi Jari. I think you are missing the point. The question should be can OUR faith save him? You see if your faith is a selfish faith that does not reach out to others, then is it really faith?
To my thinking, the seed that falls on the rocky ground is like the person who takes the first baby steps of faith by accepting the name of Jesus but then refuses (for whatever reason) to continue in faith and accept the lifestyle of Jesus and the early believers.

Having faith means to keep following where GOD leads. Not just burying your talent by keeping God's love to yourself.

Peace. Beans

Beans can you consider this question please?

if that is so how do you bring your talent money exhangers so it gains interest? like in the parable.

 

[Stickz]

I personally would say no.

Luk 7:40 And Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he replied, "Say it, Teacher."
Luk 7:41 "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?"
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."

He give us all the grace we need, but do we all need the same amount?

2Cor 12:9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Luk 7:47 "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; I just want to try to squeeze a little more information from you: Are you suggesting that grace and forgiveness are the same thing?

 

[B-A-C]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; I just want to try to squeeze a little more information from you: Are you suggesting that grace and forgiveness are the same thing?

It's kind of like making a purchase without money or credit.
You can't have one without the other.

You can't forgive without grace. The bigger the sin against you, generally the more grace it requires to forgive. This is why people can usually forgive small things, but often find bigger offenses harder to forgive.

 

[Stickz]

I Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

B-A-C, what do you think about it's use in the above verse?

 

[Romans 8.28]

We are spiritually baptized with the filling of the Holy Spirit upon our salvation to eternal life.

Where do you read that?

We are to have a deep faith and truly believe that Jesus was God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, resurrected by the Father to give us eternal life, and Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father where He is our advocate and makes intercession for us. You are saved by receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon faith in these gospel truths.

It appears from your post here that we are not saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ alone. If in the state of not being saved, how does one come to all this knowledge? Why then would grow in grace and knowledge have any meaning in our walk with Christ? We evidently have to know all that to start our journey according to this.

Is there really any work associated with our entrance into the kingdom of God other than believing Him? These sort of things have a way of perpetuating doctrines such as saying three "Hail Mary's" and an "Our Father." They become traditions of men rather than of God.

Abraham believed God, the thief simply affirmed that Jesus would be in His kingdom when he "Said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." The keeper of the prison asked "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Next we read "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?"

 

[WaterRock]

Is the LORD's Love alone capable saving someone?

Most say no, but if the LORD can't save then what...

 

[WaterRock]

Where do you read that?

Could you image this being one of the chain messages that started off as "I LOVE YOU AND YOU ARE SAVED, LOVE THE LORD" and in 5 years that 457 volumes of requirements necessary for one to saved.

[QUOTEIt appears from your post here that we are not saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ alone.[/QUOTE]

Takes away for the relevant things.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Is the LORD's Love alone capable saving someone?

Most say no, but if the LORD can't save then what...

God provided the way, Jesus' sacrifice opened the way, and our belief is the way in Christ.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

God could have chose another way unto righteousness, but He didn't. He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

 

[Peace Seeker]

Is there really any work associated with our entrance into the kingdom of God other than believing Him? These sort of things have a way of perpetuating doctrines such as saying three "Hail Mary's" and an "Our Father." They become traditions of men rather than of God. Abraham believed God, the thief simply affirmed that Jesus would be in His kingdom when he "Said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." The keeper of the prison asked "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Next we read "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?"

I think God's saving Grace is sometimes beyond our understanding. We should be obedient to the Lord's commands on what we should do to be saved (or in conjunction with being saved) : repent, ask for forgiveness, be baptized, etc. But on the other hand Jesus has the right and authority to decide how one is saved, if special circumstances present themselves, such as that of the thief on the cross example you gave. I believe the thief on the cross that asked Jesus to remember him was saved by faith, without any other requirements of him. Luke 23:43 : <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25979">43</sup>Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


So I think God doesn't have theological baggage like we do. People may stress baptism, or doing such and such a thing, but God shows that sometimes even the simplest of faith is enough.

 

[Beans]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beans
Hi Jari. I think you are missing the point. The question should be can OUR faith save him? You see if your faith is a selfish faith that does not reach out to others, then is it really faith?
To my thinking, the seed that falls on the rocky ground is like the person who takes the first baby steps of faith by accepting the name of Jesus but then refuses (for whatever reason) to continue in faith and accept the lifestyle of Jesus and the early believers.

Having faith means to keep following where GOD leads. Not just burying your talent by keeping God's love to yourself.

Peace. Beans

Originally Posted by Jari
Beans can you consider this question please?

if that is so how do you bring your talent money exhangers so it gains interest? like in the parable.

Hi Jari. Sorry for taking so long to get back to this (I'm a once a week forum poster).
I'm not really sure that I am following what you are saying Jari. It sounds like you are agreeing with me, i.e. that one should not bury one's talent but the way you ask the question makes it sound like you are making a counter point. I'm just not sure what your counter point is, though! Perhaps you can elaborate?

I think the context was the parable of the good samaritan, wasn't it? And my point was that Jesus seems to be saying that the faith of the good samaritan would save him even though his theology may have been quite wrong.
Jesus told the parable in response to the rich young ruler's question "who is my neighbour?".
Remember that Jesus had just said "Love God and love thy neighbour" in response to the Rich young ruler's first question "what must I do to be saved?".

So what I was saying is that Jesus wants us to act out our faith. You can't "accept Jesus" and then do nothing. That is not faith, nor does it reflect a personal relationship with Christ.

I absolutely agree with Peace Seeker:

So I think God doesn't have theological baggage like we do. People may stress baptism, or doing such and such a thing, but God shows that sometimes even the simplest of faith is enough.

Children don't need to understand deep theological issues to be saved. They just believe and God accepts them. God has given the power of salvation in the hands of Jesus and he is LORD (meaning he is KING and the final authority on who gets saved and who doesn't).

Peace, Beans

 

[spirit1st]

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Listen We are building up treasures in heaven.We all are going to want our rewards! They will be eternal rewards!

Salvation is the main thing for sure!

 

[my_little_pony]

False ways to be saved?

"Lord, Lord" people come to mind.


MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

It's easy to talk flowery speech about the Lord, but Jesus makes it clear that flowery speech isn't good enough.

 

[jari]

Hi Jari. Sorry for taking so long to get back to this (I'm a once a week forum poster).
I'm not really sure that I am following what you are saying Jari. It sounds like you are agreeing with me, i.e. that one should not bury one's talent but the way you ask the question makes it sound like you are making a counter point. I'm just not sure what your counter point is, though! Perhaps you can elaborate?

I just wonder how you can say that hiding your talent is keeping God's love to your self?

you cant just say one thing out of parable and forget the rest you have to be able to explain it all in order to have validity for your point.

if you say thats burying the talent what is bringing it to money changer then?

But if you dont have full explantion to the parable and what it means its alright. But I cannot see this as proper explanation until i see full explanation of the parable.
still i dont believe you can lose your salvation.

 

[jari]

False ways to be saved?

"Lord, Lord" people come to mind.


MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

It's easy to talk flowery speech about the Lord, but Jesus makes it clear that flowery speech isn't good enough.

Brother we can't take single verses out from the bible and base theology on it . we must read what Jesus is talking about in the context in order to understand what's He's really talking about.
the citation you made refers to false prophets apparently acccording to the few verses before Jesus said that. Also Lord said He never knew them. That's as if they were in no point known to God - As His own.

so i think it can only mean those who are not born again.

 

[spirit1st]

Mar_14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

God put it in our Heart, What to call HIM!Only Those who are born -again, born of God ,born from above! Have this in there hearts! He puts it in Us!

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[spirit1st]

The difference is those being born again and those rejecting salvation!
Demas traveled with Paul!I would guess did miracles in the mighty name of Jesus !Yet was never born of God!

2Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Many are called for salvation.Few are accepted! Few will allow Him to be LORD over all they have and are!

All ten were called! 5 were filled with the Holy Ghost as We all are at salvation ! 5 never had salvation !


Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

The oil means the Holy Ghost which we get at Salvation.

We are called He reveals HIMSELF to US! We either accept His gospel and Him as LORD and master of our lives or NOT? Most Do not!
It very sad!
i would say most pastors and others who go to church are not Born -Again!
Many are preaching in these churches who Do not Know Jesus! Or rather not known of JESUS!

 

[my_little_pony]

Brother we can't take single verses out from the bible and base theology on it

I'm not basing a theology. I'm just looking at what Jesus said and commenting on it.

we must read what Jesus is talking about in the context in order to understand what's He's really talking about.
the citation you made refers to false prophets apparently acccording to the few verses before Jesus said that

Yeah, I agree Jesus is talking about falseness, but my comment was in relation to the subject of the thread, "false ways to be saved".

Obviously the people saying "lord, lord" do not think of themselves as false prophets. They think they are saved.

Also Lord said He never knew them. That's as if they were in no point known to God - As His own.

Well, yeah that's what I was getting at, too. Jesus point of view is not in question.

It's the people saying "lord, lord" who are in question here. They most likely believe they are saved and yet, Jesus said that despite their religious appearance, they never bothered to actually do what he told them to do.

The "I never knew you" part is directly based on the NOT doing the will of the father part.

so i think it can only mean those who are not born again.

Sure, but again, the people saying "lord, lord" probably believe they're doing well. They probably also say stuff like "born again" and "washed in the blood" and "coming to the feet of Jesus" and "praise the Lord" and "sanctified in him" and a hundred other catch phrases.

There is nothing inherently wrong with saying all these nice things, but the point Jesus made is "why do you not obey me".

 

[jari]

I'm not basing a theology. I'm just looking at what Jesus said and commenting on it.



Yeah, I agree Jesus is talking about falseness, but my comment was in relation to the subject of the thread, "false ways to be saved".

Obviously the people saying "lord, lord" do not think of themselves as false prophets. They think they are saved.



Well, yeah that's what I was getting at, too. Jesus point of view is not in question.

It's the people saying "lord, lord" who are in question here. They most likely believe they are saved and yet, Jesus said that despite their religious appearance, they never bothered to actually do what he told them to do.

The "I never knew you" part is directly based on the NOT doing the will of the father part.



Sure, but again, the people saying "lord, lord" probably believe they're doing well. They probably also say stuff like "born again" and "washed in the blood" and "coming to the feet of Jesus" and "praise the Lord" and "sanctified in him" and a hundred other catch phrases.

There is nothing inherently wrong with saying all these nice things, but the point Jesus made is "why do you not obey me".

Right got you now bro your post made sense in the first place i just thought of something else - sorry!

Yes one must be born again... in John 3 Jesus talks about that how believing in Him makes born again...


gbu