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Mother Mary

Saying that Mary wasnt any more righteous than alot of other righteous women demeans the Lord that He would choose her by simple lottery.
Where did you get that assumption?
Why is she any MORE important than the rest? She's not yet most, a high majority of Catholics, put her at or very NEAR Jesus level.

Don't pull words from where they don't exist.
Did He make her a Saint? No.
Did other flawed sinners do that? Yes. They also made a list of Indulgences the prices for them among other things.
 
Ahh I forgot who I was talking to, I am sorry for being insensitive. I shall happily discuss these with you, though I dislike numbers as they seem to be a bit upfront and harsh when its a discussion.

The again comment at the lower part, their isn't as it shouldn't. Anyone who does needs to read the book, devotions to Holy Mary as it describes who she was and can follow in her footsteps like any other saint. She shouldn't be idolized upon, I said this before. Its better then following the footsteps of others at the moment.

The first comment,
Sure their are many who have done accomplished things, though you forget a mothers duty is to care for her child and she did a very good job at raising her child and staying and caring for him, even being next to him during death. I think that is a role model among parents. Just because you have little impact in the world doesn't mean that you have not done anything good. She was devoted to God and respected her husband, was obedient and raised her son before he told her to no longer do so ( When he called her woman instead of mother). She should be a role model to any good christian wife. She also did not wish to be mentioned much, she was modest in all her acts.

The second comment,
She was the mother of Jesus our Lour and our savior. God chose this particular woman and I agree that it will only be him that would know the answer. She was one of the woman from a very strict orthodox Jewish church so it could be related to that- she was very disciplined and devoted to God. One of the many at the time.

The third Comment,
I am aware.... Holy Mary was Jewish and continued these traditions even after Jesus's birth. She accepted him as Lord hence why she would have been the first set of Christians.

The fourth Comment,
I am sorry you feel that way.

The fifth comment,
Anyone will say that after studying and coming with your beliefs, people will have separate beliefs and thoughts. Hence why we are humans... we have freedom to belief what we see and study about. I wonder if theirs a forum that exists where we an spread this beliefs and thoughts? ( Little joke sorry)

Please do not state you are wrong, it demonstrates a closed mindset or sense of authority- even if you say most people are 99%- it suggests you look down at people its not very freindly. It could stop more unassuming people from speaking up and entering the discussion.

The sigth comment,
I guess so...... she touched Jesus many times and it was stated in the Bible that someone touched His robe and was curied of leprosy. Though I do hope they keep her at rest and not show case it like you said, she was a modest woman and probably would not like what is being done with her remains.Many churches can be wrong, I do agree with you.
The only one I would visit is the Saint, forgot her name so will put here when I remember, who wanted her bones to travel as it was her dream to visit the world to help people and teach the word of the Lord. ( she was a nun but died at a very young age).

The seventh Comment,

Their are many reasons on why someone becomes a saint, she exacted everything as good christian mother should, she should set an example of all woman and wives. Devoted to her God and obientent to her husband. All of the apostles became saints and many people in the Bible are saints. Every saints has a incredible story, Holy Marys is just one that is quite modest so its best looking up what she has done, other then being the mother of our Savior.


I have to go to work now so I shall ammend this later
"it suggests you look down at people" A suggestion or assumption is not evident of anything.
How many Catholics make the sign of the Cross and think it has "supernatural powers"? A high majority of them.
Weird how they parade around dead saint's body parts and that's "Ok" yet it's not commanded nor are there instructions.
1. Which precious metals which could be used better to feed and house the poor, sick, and needy are to be used?
2. How much?
3. Style?
4. How long is the parade?
5. Who can (there's picture and video evidence) "lick, touch, stroke, fondle, brush against, and rub various items to "imbue with holy power"?

Since these saints are in Heaven, are the OK with that? Pretty sure they are not. In fact, if I were I wouldn't be ignorant of it and that is gross and weird.
If the "Assumption of Mary" is to be true, then WHY is there some of her hair?

One such tour which is being sponsored by the Knights of Columbus, where for six months during mid 2019. The Knights of Columbus are taking Saint John Vianney’s Incorrupt Heart on a national tour across the USA. On loan from the Shrine of Ars, France, the relic has been entrusted into the care of Knights of Columbus who are now responsible for keeping the relic safe and secure at all times. - Dead bodies go on TOUR!
What a great way to sell MERCH and TIkTok videos.

It doesn't add up.
 
Where did you get that assumption?
Why is she any MORE important than the rest? She's not yet most, a high majority of Catholics, put her at or very NEAR Jesus level.

Don't pull words from where they don't exist.
Did He make her a Saint? No.
Did other flawed sinners do that? Yes. They also made a list of Indulgences the prices for them among other things.
Indulgences were absolutely wrong. Worshipping Mary is wrong, but she was obviously "blessed". Its like you want to make her into a peasant barely able to do the right thing in life. I can guarantee you that she was more righteous than you. Take the log out of your own eye so that you see more clearly.
 
This is not a debate on Catholicism.... its about Holy Mary, go to another thread for it. Your being very disrespectful.
 
Indulgences were absolutely wrong. Worshipping Mary is wrong, but she was obviously "blessed". Its like you want to make her into a peasant barely able to do the right thing in life. I can guarantee you that she was more righteous than you. Take the log out of your own eye so that you see more clearly.
1. What about everyone else in human/Bible history that is blessed?
2. Where did you get that assumption? Not Catholic.
3. "I can guarantee you that she was more righteous than you."
You went there. Going after me has nothing to do with this. She's more righteous than you so that "comment" is irrelevant. Seems you felt "insulted" for someone else?

"Take the log out of your own eye so that you see more clearly."
1. She wasn't sinless. Sinned LESS is accurate. IDK what hers were but she's not alive. That phrase is for LIVING people and two+ who are guilty of the same sin.
If I'm not guilty of a sin of someone else, I have EVERY right to correct them.
If I'm doing the same and NOT recognizing my own that would apply.

I suggest you step back and keep personal attacks out of any discussion.
Many people know full well about Catholics and what they believe and it's why we are NOT.
 
What I’m witnessing here is troubling because it doesn’t reflect the Spirit of God at work among us. When bickering and personal attacks take center stage, it’s clear that we’ve moved away from the Spirit of unity and love that should define our interactions as believers. It’s important for us to lay aside religious labels, denominational differences, and truly focus on the Word of God. Scripture urges us to handle the truth with humility and respect, even when we encounter different interpretations. As 2 Timothy 2:15 teaches, we are to "rightly divide the word of truth," which means carefully examining Scripture and presenting our understanding with grace and integrity. Ephesians 4:15 reminds us to "speak the truth in love," emphasizing that our discussions should be marked by respect and compassion, not by personal attacks or harsh criticism.

In theological discussions, the goal should never be to win an argument but to seek truth together, sharpening one another as iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17). When conversations degrade into personal attacks, we lose sight of this goal and instead mimic the secular world, where debates often become about ego rather than edification. Scripture warns against such behavior, instructing us in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 to avoid quarrels and instead "be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves." Our focus should be on addressing interpretations directly, using sound theological reasoning and scriptural evidence to discuss and discern the truth.

Therefore, rather than engaging in personal attacks, we should concentrate on debating interpretations with a spirit of humility and a commitment to the reliability of Scripture. This approach not only honors God but also upholds the integrity of our conversations, ensuring that we are truly seeking His truth above all else. If my interpretations ever seem flawed, I invite you to show me where I am wrong by addressing the Scriptures themselves, not personal attacks, as our ultimate goal is to align with the Word of God, which is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
 
What I’m witnessing here is troubling because it doesn’t reflect the Spirit of God at work among us. When bickering and personal attacks take center stage, it’s clear that we’ve moved away from the Spirit of unity and love that should define our interactions as believers. It’s important for us to lay aside religious labels, denominational differences, and truly focus on the Word of God. Scripture urges us to handle the truth with humility and respect, even when we encounter different interpretations. As 2 Timothy 2:15 teaches, we are to "rightly divide the word of truth," which means carefully examining Scripture and presenting our understanding with grace and integrity. Ephesians 4:15 reminds us to "speak the truth in love," emphasizing that our discussions should be marked by respect and compassion, not by personal attacks or harsh criticism.

In theological discussions, the goal should never be to win an argument but to seek truth together, sharpening one another as iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17). When conversations degrade into personal attacks, we lose sight of this goal and instead mimic the secular world, where debates often become about ego rather than edification. Scripture warns against such behavior, instructing us in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 to avoid quarrels and instead "be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves." Our focus should be on addressing interpretations directly, using sound theological reasoning and scriptural evidence to discuss and discern the truth.

Therefore, rather than engaging in personal attacks, we should concentrate on debating interpretations with a spirit of humility and a commitment to the reliability of Scripture. This approach not only honors God but also upholds the integrity of our conversations, ensuring that we are truly seeking His truth above all else. If my interpretations ever seem flawed, I invite you to show me where I am wrong by addressing the Scriptures themselves, not personal attacks, as our ultimate goal is to align with the Word of God, which is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
To a degree you're correct.
"Bickering" in any form is part of humanity. It existed in the early church and it's not going anywhere.
The problem is when one person/group points out a fact in something else and other people/groups don't like it.
The Truth comes from God not any Christian group and when you look at them, they've ALL decided to "go their own way" in some way.
Did God say to "talk to snakes, speak in Tongues (non-existent today), and have seizures on the floor, and force women to wear only dresses? No.
Did Jesus every say "Venerate/escalate/put above my Earthly mother and pray to her b/c I'm too busy" or "Put on costly parades with part of her and other saints' dead bodies so people can "touch" them in hopes of divine healing" when there's been no evidence of it? No.
The CC has been trying to hide a lot of its history and Indulgences have been on a roller coaster of "good" and "banned" often.
"In 1967 Pope Paul VI reiterated Catholic teaching on indulgences and added new reforms in his apostolic constitution Indulgentiarum Doctrina (cf. Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post-Conciliar Documents, ed. Austin Flannery, O.P. [Northport, New York: Costello, 1980], 62-79).

There are many more but the point IS, there is NO Scripture for these three yet they not only exist but these groups are guilty of it.
The ONLY label we should be concerned and tell anyone when asked is "Christian" or "Child of God".
You will find when asked if religious or believe in God, most will say what denomination they are especially Catholics.

Learning the Bible includes secular information, evidence, and inference which back it.

We're all reading text. Unless typed out, usually in all caps, then you don't really know if someone is emotional.
 
speak in Tongues (non-existent today)
1 Corinthians 13:8, "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away"

Highlights the enduring nature of godly love. This verse contrasts the eternal and unwavering quality of love with the temporary nature of spiritual gifts like prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. These gifts are essential for edifying the church and spreading the gospel, but they are finite and will serve their intended roles within the church age.

Scripture also recognize that these gifts will continue until the end of the age when "that which is perfect is come" (1 Corinthians 13:10). This phrase is interpreted as referring to the culmination of God's plan and the return of Christ, (not the finished canon of Scripture or end of Apostolic Age) when believers will experience complete understanding and fulfillment in His presence. At that time, prophecies, tongues, and partial knowledge will no longer be needed as they will be surpassed by the perfect knowledge and revelation found in Christ.

In contrast, charity—selfless, sacrificial love modeled after Christ's love—is eternal and foundational to the Christian faith. It persists beyond the temporal expressions of spiritual gifts because it reflects the very nature of God Himself (1 John 4:8). Scripture emphasizes the importance of cultivating this love in all aspects of life, as it transcends the transient nature of gifts and endures throughout eternity. This perspective encourages believers to prioritize love above all else, knowing that it is the enduring mark of a life lived in communion with God and in service to others.

1 Corinthians 13:9, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part"

Acknowledges the limitations of human understanding and spiritual revelation in relation to the vastness of God's wisdom and knowledge. This verse underscores the belief that while believers receive divine insights and messages through prophetic utterances and spiritual gifts, these revelations are partial and incomplete compared to the fullness of God's truth. This as a reminder of the need for humility and dependency on God's Spirit in interpreting and applying spiritual revelations.

The phrase "we know in part" acknowledges that human knowledge and understanding are finite and subject to our current perspectives and experiences. It emphasizes the ongoing journey of growth and learning in faith, recognizing that our understanding of spiritual truths is progressive and evolving. Similarly, "we prophesy in part" highlights that the prophetic messages received are not exhaustive or complete revelations but are delivered according to God's timing and purpose. Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit intended for edification, exhortation, and comfort within the church community (1 Corinthians 14:3).

1 Corinthians 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

Addresses the diversity of spiritual gifts within the body of Christ, emphasizing that not every believer will have the same role or gift. The church is likened to a body, with each member having a distinct function, and all are necessary for the health and growth of the church. This diversity ensures that the church operates effectively, with apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, those with gifts of healing, and others each contributing uniquely to the mission of the church.

It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost. This experience is a sign of the New Birth and is distinct from the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12.

Second, the passage in 1 Corinthians 12 refers to the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, typically occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.

In summary, while every believer is encouraged to seek and receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as a personal experience, the specific gift of tongues used in church settings for communal edification and requiring interpretation is given according to God’s sovereign will and purpose. This distinction clarifies the different roles of speaking in tongues within the body of Christ, both for individual spiritual growth and for the edification of the church.
 
Did Jesus every say "Venerate/escalate/put above my Earthly mother and pray to her b/c I'm too busy" or "Put on costly parades with part of her and other saints' dead bodies so people can "touch" them in hopes of divine healing" when there's been no evidence of it? No.
It is so strange people actually believe this!
 
Many Catholics regard Mary as a significant figure, often seeing her as the second Ark of the Covenant due to her status. They praise her and look up to her in their faith. Similarly, the Jewish people performed rituals with the Ark of the Covenant, so I believe there is a parallel in how figures of reverence are treated across different traditions.

Personally, I will always pray to her half as much as I would pray to the Lord. However, it's important to keep in mind the nuances of religion and devotion. Please note I said devotion and not idolization.
As sincere as your intentions may be, it is important to align our practices with the teachings of Scripture, which consistently points us to worship and pray to God alone. The Bible warns against placing anyone or anything in a position that detracts from the exclusive worship due to God. In Exodus 20:3-5, God commands, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image… Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them." This passage emphasizes that our devotion and worship must be directed solely to the Lord, without division or distraction.

While Mary, the mother of Jesus, is indeed a significant figure in salvation history, honored for her role in bearing the Savior, the New Testament never instructs believers to pray to her or any other saint. Jesus Himself teaches us to pray directly to the Father in His name (John 14:13-14), making it clear that our communication with God is through Christ alone, who is our sole mediator (1 Timothy 2:5). Elevating Mary, or anyone else, to a status where we offer prayers or divide our devotion diminishes the unique and singular place that belongs to God alone. The deep theological truth is that God is jealous for His glory (Isaiah 42:8), and our worship and prayer must be undivided, fully focused on Him who is worthy of all honor, praise, and adoration. Any practice that diverts even a portion of this devotion risks violating the very heart of our faith, which is rooted in the worship of God alone.
 
He could simply be telling the disciple to see his mother somewhere in the crowd.

I don't. Nor do I know that he wasn't, and neither do you.
LOL, yeah Jesus made sure that He pointed out some disciples mother there. Sorta like, "Hey billy bob, aint that your mama over there." I can see the importance of including that information into Holy Scripture. LOL!!
 
Saying that Mary wasnt any more righteous than alot of other righteous women demeans the Lord that He would choose her by simple lottery.
Brad I have to ask you here, what did Mary do that made her so special, so super righteous? All she did was to do the thing we are to do. She obeyed God. And she did not count the cost. Beyond that, she did nothing unusual. She raised children, she cleaned, she cooked, she argued with her neighbors, went shopping.....and so on. She was blessed by God in that she became the doorway to Jesus entrance into the Earth. Special status? No Rewards in heaven Yes Someone for us to revere? No. Someone to emulate? Ok
 
Read Luke 1:27-38 and you can tell us.
Definition of obey:
"To comply with the command, direction, or request of a person or a law."
I don't see in the Luke passage where a command, direction, or a request was made. She was merely informed that she was going to have a child.
 
Definition of obey:
"To comply with the command, direction, or request of a person or a law."
I don't see in the Luke passage where a command, direction, or a request was made. She was merely informed that she was going to have a child.
and she could have refused. God would have honored her decision.
 
and she could have refused. God would have honored her decision.
And then what? Another virgin who met the right requirements would have to be found, and when she also didn't want the honor, another one would have to be found, etc., etc. And by the way, the Father didn't even honor His son's decision when He said that He didn't want to go through with the crucifixion plan.
 
And then what? Another virgin who met the right requirements would have to be found, and when she also didn't want the honor, another one would have to be found, etc., etc. And by the way, the Father didn't even honor His son's decision when He said that He didn't want to go through with the crucifixion plan.
Yes That's what God would have done. The Father and the Son are the same They were in agreement always. You need to read that part again...Ask the Holy Spirit to guide your understanding there
 
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