Questions About Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith

[God's Truth]

Which one? Matthias is named as an apostle.
Paul is named as an apostle.
..and so is Barnabas.

Only one replaced Judas. The scriptures say Matthias.

 

[Rhema]

Perhaps God does.

God needs us to "proclaim the 'Gospel According to Jesus Christ'" to Him? Why? Has He forgotten it?

Some teach Satan doesn't know what is spoken in tongues.

Well that would be ridiculous. Tongues are a great way for God to tell Satan off.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Of course you don’t understand, which is logical.

I don't understand things that don't make sense. Why do you think that one should?

1st. When you are reading from a translation that cannot be word for word to make sense.

Okay then, according to this passage:

(1 Corinthians 14:2 GRK) ο γαρ λαλων (SPEAKING) γλωσση (IN TONGUES) ουκ (NOT) ανθρωποις (TO MAN) λαλει (HE SPEAKS) αλλα (BUT) τω (TO) θεω (GOD) ουδεις γαρ ακουει πνευματι δε λαλει μυστηρια​

... what you said doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that God would give an utterance of human tongues to a person to have that person speak to God.

2nd. Plus When you are not familiar with collective customs and cultural that are gather together. At center places at center times of Celebrations.

Now you're just making stuff up. What "collective customs" are you speaking of? (Bet you don't answer.)

3rd but not least it is the school of thought and the arena where repetition has played a great part in one’s religious up bringing of the time period one is brought up in.

Lucky me then, I was brought up within an Independent Fundamentalist church that believed speaking in tongues was devil possession, so ... no repetition or upbringing problems for me. I am so sorry you've had a problem with that.

And there are other factors that are involved.

Ahh... the ephemeral "other factors" - alluded to but never actually named. (What a crock.) If there were, you could have described them. An honorable person would. No?

So, continue as you are.

Fear not. I shall continue in the paths upon which He has set my foot. Thank you.

What about the “Mute” and the ones who do not have or born without vocal cords.

So because there are mute people who cannot utter a sound, then speaking in Tongues (any tongue) is somehow a condemnation of God? How bizarre.

In other words... yeah... what about them?

So we Must bear The Infirmities ofcThe Weak [the unlearned].

Ahhh.. the gloved insult. You are an adept at it.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Thanks for the interest.

If you ever finish it, let me know (if I'm still around). Maybe by PM.

Why do you say unconscionable?

Nobody should be urging you to pretend anything. In a similar vein, nobody should be pushing anybody over (as is the custom of some).

You probably grew up in the Pentecostal church and had seen many people all of a sudden speak in tongues?

Again, quite the opposite. I grew up within an Independent Fundamentalist Church where it was preached as God's Truth that people speaking in tongues were possessed by the devil. I received the gift when in my 30's, and quite by God's directive through a Word of Knowledge. One might say I am a very reluctant Pentecostal (though more so a very reluctant "Charismatic.")

I'd like to discuss that with you, but I think we probably did at length some years ago, right? I recognized your name.

Likely not. I haven't used this screen name anywhere else, and I've only discovered this place quite recently. My own testimony is also rather long, but I would be open to a PM if you wish. (The next two weeks are rather busy, so my time will be more limited.)

I know I am careful with how I speak to others.

Hmmm... not when you say things like this:

You will say something negative about me no matter what,

and this:

Here comes the jealousy and the accusations.

But since you think that such is "careful" - there's nothing I can do to address your perspective.

because I go against your beliefs.

Yet that's a presumption, since you don't know what all my beliefs are. (Granted it's a likely presumption, but a presumption still.)

I don't get what you are saying.

My apologies for being unclear. But one would think it obvious that the basis of Salvation was changed by Reformation theology.

As for nobody likes that...there isn't a kinder more careful poster on any site that I have been, and there have been many.

Ma'am, it was a general comment, not directed towards you.

When no one is around who understands, then it is an unknown tongue.

That's an interpretive context. It cannot be derived from the text, although I should point out that the KJV inserts the word "unknown" (and I did place it in italics, as I'm sure you know that words italicized in the KJV are words they added for "interpretive context").

When I joined this site, it automatically put the picture I have on my wordpress site.

I'm sure with some effort you could change it back.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Paul says plainly that it is.

Not so. I would encourage you to read the passage again. Paul says that your mind is unfruitful (to mean it doesn't understand the utterance). Paul did not say that the act of such an utterance was fruitless in its entirety.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

At Pentecost, the Apostles were speaking in tongues, and there were many people from many different places who had many different foreign languages who heard them speaking in their language.

Again, I would encourage you to more carefully read the passage. Perhaps even in a Greek interlinear.

The disciples were NOT speaking in the foreign languages of those listening. The text says that each foreigner HEARD what was being said in their own language, not that the disciples were speaking in these other languages. The Greek was hearing Greek at the same time the Roman was hearing Latin, and the Persian was hearing Aramaic, and the list is long.

(Acts 2:8 KJV) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?​

​

(Acts 2:8-11 YLT) and how do we hear, each in our proper dialect, in which we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and those dwelling in Mesopotamia, in Judea also, and Cappadocia, Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia also, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya, that are along Cyrene, and the strangers of Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we did hear them speaking in our tongues the great things of God.'​

There weren't disciples speaking one per language. Instead, as it it written, EACH foreigner heard in their proper dialect. The miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking.

Thanks
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

pride does come before the fall, but I doubt this rebuke in Christ's love will faze you at all.

Interestingly enough, the Hebrew states, "Self respect fleeth before one winds up in the gutter." (But I doubt this emendation in Christ's love will faze you at all.)

Rhema

 

[God's Truth]

If you ever finish it, let me know (if I'm still around). Maybe by PM.


Nobody should be urging you to pretend anything. In a similar vein, nobody should be pushing anybody over (as is the custom of some).

Where do you get that someone was urging me to pretend?

Again, quite the opposite. I grew up within an Independent Fundamentalist Church where it was preached as God's Truth that people speaking in tongues were possessed by the devil. I received the gift when in my 30's, and quite by God's directive through a Word of Knowledge. One might say I am a very reluctant Pentecostal (though more so a very reluctant "Charismatic.")

I've heard that before.
People watch and copy others "speaking in tongues". People see it on TV and in churches they attend.

Likely not. I haven't used this screen name anywhere else, and I've only discovered this place quite recently.

So what name are you claiming you used elsewhere?
I have many different names on many different sites.

My own testimony is also rather long, but I would be open to a PM if you wish. (The next two weeks are rather busy, so my time will be more limited.)


Hmmm... not when you say things like this:

and this:

But since you think that such is "careful" - there's nothing I can do to address your perspective.

I expect your false judgments of me, it comes with telling people the truth. It is why you and GodB4Us are having the desire to start accusations and insults.

Yet that's a presumption, since you don't know what all my beliefs are. (Granted it's a likely presumption, but a presumption still.)

I know what your beliefs are and I did go against them. You are a self proclaimed tongue speaker. That is your belief and that is what I went against.

My apologies for being unclear. But one would think it obvious that the basis of Salvation was changed by Reformation theology.

I'm not from the reformation theologies.

Ma'am, it was a general comment, not directed towards you.

I'm not interested in playing games.

Try not to make your posts about what you think of me personally.

That's an interpretive context. It cannot be derived from the text, although I should point out that the KJV inserts the word "unknown" (and I did place it in italics, as I'm sure you know that words italicized in the KJV are words they added for "interpretive context").

It doesn't matter which Bible translation you want to use, and no one has to learn another language to know God's Truth.

You want to take out the italicized words? Go ahead, and you still can't change the truth being the tongue speaker is only talking to God when no one is around that knows what language they are speaking---it is then an unknown tongue/language.

1 Corinthians 14:2For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

If a person speaks in a foreign language and doesn't understand what they are saying---their mind is fruitless.

So what should you do so you don't have a fruitless mind?

You would pray to interpret what you are saying.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

That is what the Word of God says.

As for speaking in tongues, it is a gift that has ceased. It was a sign, to the Jews, during the laying of the foundation. The sign has been given, and the foundation has been laid. Tongues stopped when new prophesies and knowledge stopped. Just as the scriptures say it would.

 

[God's Truth]

Not so. I would encourage you to read the passage again. Paul says that your mind is unfruitful (to mean it doesn't understand the utterance). Paul did not say that the act of such an utterance was fruitless in its entirety.

Thanks,
Rhema

Paul says plainly that your mind is unfruitful if you don't know what you are saying. A fruitless mind is not something to aim for, ever.

 

[God's Truth]

Again, I would encourage you to more carefully read the passage. Perhaps even in a Greek interlinear.

No one has to learn another language to know God's Truth.

The disciples were NOT speaking in the foreign languages of those listening.

Of course they were.

The text says that each foreigner HEARD what was being said in their own language, not that the disciples were speaking in these other languages.

They heard what the Apostles were saying in their own foreign language.

The Greek was hearing Greek at the same time the Roman was hearing Latin, and the Persian was hearing Aramaic, and the list is long.
(Acts 2:8 KJV) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

(Acts 2:8-11 YLT) and how do we hear, each in our proper dialect, in which we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and those dwelling in Mesopotamia, in Judea also, and Cappadocia, Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia also, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya, that are along Cyrene, and the strangers of Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we did hear them speaking in our tongues the great things of God.'

There weren't disciples speaking one per language. Instead, as it it written, EACH foreigner heard in their proper dialect. The miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking.

I have dealt with this belief about the speaking being the language of angels and the hearer hearing in their own foreign language.
It doesn't change the fact that they heard in REAL EARTHLY LANGUAGES.

 

[Rhema]

Where do you get that someone was urging me to pretend?

You had said....

There was a time I was talked into believing I could speak in tongues

The act of "talking someone into" is urging by means of speech. If you really were not speaking in tongues, then you were pretending even if you didn't think you were. Perhaps you have a semantic quibble? They seem the same to me, and that's where I got the idea.

I've heard that before.
People watch and copy others "speaking in tongues". People see it on TV and in churches they attend.

I don't disagree that this happens. People want to both belong and feel special. It's a powerful force, and given that, one can talk people into doing all kinds of things. But it didn't happen that way with me.

So what name are you claiming you used elsewhere?
I have many different names on many different sites.

I hadn't claimed I was using any name elsewhere, but only that I've used the name Rhema here, not elsewhere.

It is why you and GodB4Us are having the desire to start accusations and insults.

What an accusation you've just made. Thinking you know my desires? But no worries. I am quite able to completely ignore you. I recall you being unable to learn or revise what you think you know, and I actually nave no trouble following this verse:

(1 Corinthians 14:38 KJV) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.​

It seems that's what you want, so I'd be happy to oblige and let you be.

Rhema

It doesn't matter which Bible translation you want to use, and no one has to learn another language to know God's Truth.

Someone does, or there wouldn't be any translations for you to read. It's rather risky to place your "Truth" on the ability of another person. Unless, of course, if you adopt the position that the Bible is completely disconnected from your "knowing."

As for speaking in tongues, it is a gift that has ceased. It was a sign, to the Jews, during the laying of the foundation. The sign has been given, and the foundation has been laid. Tongues stopped when new prophesies and knowledge stopped. Just as the scriptures say it would.

Again, that's your interpretation of various passages, likely stitched together with gossamer thread in a wonky logic pattern. (I've seen such before.) It makes for a Frankenstein doctrine. The time frame of which you speak is again your own personal interpretation. You like to believe your own interpretations to be God's Truth, and seem unable to adequately divide between objective truth and subjective interpretation. But I know you'll never bother your head with that concern. And as I said, I'm happy to oblige your desire to be ignorant.

Paul says plainly that you mind is unfruitful if you don't know what you are saying.

But the act of speaking in tongues is never unfruitful.

(Isaiah 55:11 KJV) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.​

(Acts 2:4 KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

In Acts 2, nobody was sitting around trying to interpret all of what was being uttered. The Spirit gave the utterance, so the word goeth forth out God's mouth through the disciples and did not return void (fruitless) even though the disciples may have had no idea what they were saying. Any utterance of tongues given by the Spirit shall accomplish that which God pleases.

They heard what the Apostles were saying in their own foreign language.

No. The Apostles weren't saying anything in any other foreign languages. The foreigners HEARD in their own foreign dialect the utterance spoken through the Apostles by the Spirit. I'm not sure you understand the action that is being described. A disciple proclaims something - an utterance of the Spirit, the Greek heard Greek, but the Roman heard Latin, and the Persian standing next to him heard Aramaic. Each heard the same message, but in his own dialect. The disciple was not speaking Greek nor Latin, nor any of the other human languages. They were speaking an utterance of the Spirit after which each person heard in his own dialect the utterance that was given.

I know what you believe, but that's not what the text says.

 

[Rhema]

It doesn't change the fact that they heard in REAL EARTHLY LANGUAGES.

But it does change the dynamic of those who believe the Apostles were SPEAKING in Real Earthly Languages. They were not.

 

[GodB4Us]

He was lost because he was a devil and would not repent of his sins and was chosen for the fulfillment of the scriptures.

Only Judas was lost.

Judas was replaced with another Apostle.

@B-A-C @Rhema @Curtis @Shaolin @Bob Carabbio @Mayflower @GRACE ambassador @Christ4Ever @Chad @ladylovesJesus @AndyX @complete

Which had occurred before Pentecost.

Now read the witness of what was to come at Pentecost; their salvation moment.

Acts 1:1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

When comparing the above scripture with the one below;

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is why His remaining disciples were saved at Pentecost so they can share in the same testimonies as every one else that believes in Him after His ascension.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Otherwise doubts would have arisen because believers would be tempted to have doubts when Jesus did not baptized them with the Holy Ghost directly as some of His disciples were per John 20:22.

Jesus says they were NOT lost, they obeyed and Jesus kept them safe, they were promised the Holy Spirit.

The difference between Judas Iscariot and His disciples is what?

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Now please note how Thomas was not with them in John 20:22.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I can see why they were actually born again of the Spirit at Pentecost so they can be like other believers in having received the promise of the Spirit from the Father by faith in Jesus Christ rather than by sight of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

As it is, once His disciples were born again of the Spirit at their salvation moment, there is no receiving Him again so that all believers can receive this warning so we can keep the faith against those spirits of the antichrist.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

They belonged to the Father and were called children of God before Jesus came.

If you are going to refer to predestination, we do have to apply His words for when they did become children of God, on earth because there was a time by His words, they were not children of God on earth.

Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

They were not condemned.

They were not saved yet either until Pentecost for when that born again of the Spirit moment was to happen when He was no longer present with His disciples but had gone to God the Father in Heaven..

You did know that Paradise, also known as Abraham's bosom, was located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell when Jesus was on earth but now Paradise is in Heaven since His ascension?

King Saul had consulted with a medium to call up the spirit of the prophet Samuel from beneath the earth and Samuel did prophesy from the Lord an end to King Saul & his two sons in 1 Samuel 28th chapter and then Paul testified indirectly of the apostle John & the Book of Revelation whereby John was taken up to the third heaven where Paradise now is in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4

Anyway, there is necessity for His disciples to be officially saved at Pentecost otherwise, the apostasy you & I see where saved believers believe they can receive the Holy Ghost again and again and again is happening in these latter days.

That means His disciples have to have been saved at Pentecost or else saved believers will point to various events in Acts and how His disciples including Judas Iscariot had received the Holy Ghost in Matthew 10:1-20 and not just the remaining ones without Thomas in John 20:22 which would be twice before Pentecost. See the problem? For Judas Iscariot not to be saved for Him to lose none in that regard and yet He lost him being one of the twelve chosen is why those two events regarding His disciples when Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit directly Himself, was not the salvation moment because He TOLD them this was to occur when He was no longer present with them, but had gone to the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also........16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

In keeping the faith which is the good fight, His disciples were saved at Pentecost when Jesus was no longer physically present with them. By ascending to Heaven, He began making citizens of Heaven at and since Pentecost. That is why there is no receiving the Holy Ghost again after salvation; not for us, and not for His disciples for that was when they were actually saved at Pentecost.

 

[GodB4Us]

Interestingly enough, the Hebrew states, "Self respect fleeth before one winds up in the gutter." (But I doubt this emendation in Christ's love will faze you at all.)

Rhema

@Curtis @Shaolin @Bob Carabbio @Mayflower @GRACE ambassador @Christ4Ever @Chad @ladylovesJesus @AndyX @complete @B-A-C @God's Truth

How can it faze me when self respect does not apply to me in His ministry when we are nothing?

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 3;4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Do you believe that if a professing Christian does not speak in tongues, he does not have the Holy Spirit and therefore he is not saved? Were you not defending that portion of Talk Jesus's Statement of faith as if applied to that meaning?

So part of my story is that I had visited roughly a dozen or more Pentecostal / Charismatic churches where the sermon was on this "Tongues Baptism" where tongues was claimed as being the only evidence that one could have of having been "Baptized in the Holy Spirit." None of these sermons were without mistake, so I noted the claims and moved on. Until one night at the age of 32, I was attending a Charismatic service where the sermon was on this topic (again). It was interesting. The pastor had been truly twisting what the KJV scriptures were saying.... in a slight way, mildly "bent" but nothing egregious to walk out on. But I had my Greek New Testament (with English interlinear) on me. Not only was the Greek actually saying what this pastor was preaching, it was more emphatic. At the end and to my horror, the pastor didn't make a mistake. I couldn't avoid action. I had to deal with this issue right then and there. Now to make a very long wondrous story sound almost inconsequential, I wound up being baptized in tongues that night, to the horror of this church, because my experience didn't follow their expectations.

I guess my point here is that to understand this phenomena of the Christian walk, one should speak with several "tongues speaking" believers.

And yet YOU separate yourself from the body of Christ by boasting of having another drink of the One Spirit from what we were all baptized by and YOU separate yourself by claiming tongues not only as a sign of salvation but for private use also. You are the one preaching extra. You are the one exalting yourself over other believers. You are the one ignoring this warning from Jesus for seeking salvation as if by a sign rather than by believing in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Calling you to repent and return to your first love because the gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same gospel you are preaching which is the gospel of tongues as if we are seeking to be saved by speaking in tongues; not.

 

[God's Truth]

You had said....

The act of "talking someone into" is urging by means of speech. If you really were not speaking in tongues, then you were pretending even if you didn't think you were. Perhaps you have a semantic quibble? They seem the same to me, and that's where I got the idea.

You just imagined that it was about pretending and it just isn't there. The ones teaching how to speak in tongues didn't think they were teaching people to pretend.

What an accusation you've just made.

It isn't an accusation. You saying it is doesn't make it true.

Thinking you know my desires? But no worries. I am quite able to completely ignore you. I recall you being unable to learn or revise what you think you know, and I actually nave no trouble following this verse:

(1 Corinthians 14:38 KJV) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.​

It seems that's what you want, so I'd be happy to oblige and let you be.

You said you were a tongue speaker. I teach that tongue speaking ceased. Your false judgments and accusations towards me was to be expected.

Someone does, or there wouldn't be any translations for you to read.

You should think about that more, because you are wrong. A person can be a translator of other languages, but still not know God's Truth. No one needs to learn another language to know God's Truth. God brings His message to us in our language.

Again, that's your interpretation of various passages, likely stitched together with gossamer thread in a wonky logic pattern. (I've seen such before.) It makes for a Frankenstein doctrine. The time frame of which you speak is again your own personal interpretation. You like to believe your own interpretations to be God's Truth, and seem unable to adequately divide between objective truth and subjective interpretation. But I know you'll never bother your head with that concern. And as I said, I'm happy to oblige your desire to be ignorant.

I prove my beliefs with scripture.

But the act of speaking in tongues is never unfruitful.

(Isaiah 55:11 KJV) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.​

That isn't about speaking in a language no one knows.

(Acts 2:4 KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

In Acts 2, nobody was sitting around trying to interpret all of what was being uttered. The Spirit gave the utterance, so the word goeth forth out God's mouth through the disciples and did not return void (fruitless) even though the disciples may have had no idea what they were saying. Any utterance of tongues given by the Spirit shall accomplish that which God pleases.

That was at Pentecost and foreigners were there who understood.

No. The Apostles weren't saying anything in any other foreign languages. The foreigners HEARD in their own foreign dialect the utterance spoken through the Apostles by the Spirit. I'm not sure you understand the action that is being described. A disciple proclaims something - an utterance of the Spirit, the Greek heard Greek, but the Roman heard Latin, and the Persian standing next to him heard Aramaic. Each heard the same message, but in his own dialect. The disciple was not speaking Greek nor Latin, nor any of the other human languages. They were speaking an utterance of the Spirit after which each person heard in his own dialect the utterance that was given.

I already explained that to you. I said plainly that even if they spoke in what some people call angel language, the hearers still heard in their own earthly languages.

I know what you believe, but that's not what the text says.

Wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

But it does change the dynamic of those who believe the Apostles were SPEAKING in Real Earthly Languages. They were not.

It is about the hearers. The hearers heard in real earthly languages.

 

[PloughBoy]

I don't understand things that don't make sense. Why do you think that one should?


Okay then, according to this passage:

(1 Corinthians 14:2 GRK) ο γαρ λαλων (SPEAKING) γλωσση (IN TONGUES) ουκ (NOT) ανθρωποις (TO MAN) λαλει (HE SPEAKS) αλλα (BUT) τω (TO) θεω (GOD) ουδεις γαρ ακουει πνευματι δε λαλει μυστηρια​

... what you said doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that God would give an utterance of human tongues to a person to have that person speak to God.


Now you're just making stuff up. What "collective customs" are you speaking of? (Bet you don't answer.)


Lucky me then, I was brought up within an Independent Fundamentalist church that believed speaking in tongues was devil possession, so ... no repetition or upbringing problems for me. I am so sorry you've had a problem with that.


Ahh... the ephemeral "other factors" - alluded to but never actually named. (What a crock.) If there were, you could have described them. An honorable person would. No?


Fear not. I shall continue in the paths upon which He has set my foot. Thank you.


So because there are mute people who cannot utter a sound, then speaking in Tongues (any tongue) is somehow a condemnation of God? How bizarre.

In other words... yeah... what about them?


Ahhh.. the gloved insult. You are an adept at it.

Rhema

You and your church save the world then.
With all that “yodeling”

It seems to me you got more faith in a some funny Spooky gibberish tones that is spooky that sound like that voodoo down there in “Louisiana” swamp.
I know, what it sounds like to me, I been down there in “Louisiana” and have had relatives who had live down there. That is why I stay away from
voodoo hoodoo talking people! And I do it in the name of the Jesus!

If GOD cannot talk to me in English or I cannot speak and pray in a language that I can understand, he can keep that information for himself! “noted”

If you think I am going be a fool to listen to someone a human going to interpret gibberish to me, it ain’t going to happen, because the bible say, “humans” are Liars” And I know a WHOLE lot of Christian are Liars, and the court system and judges has said that Christian lie all the time!
How they know? They have caught them, lying! In record numbers!

And when I pray, I pray in English! And it is good enough for me! And I am satisfied. For “GODLINESS with Contentment is Great Gain” I am content.

When someone is trying to push a religious practice of some “barbaric” act upon the people instead of Christ Jesus! And Jesus has never spoke in any kind of Gibberish language nor did he instruct any of his followers to do so!

But in “Corinth” the pagan Greek worshipper of Their gods it was a normal practice to utter gibberish language and the new coverts brought it into Christianity, some thought it was a good idea to bring Greek worshipping ideas into the newly form religion called Christian’s. So they did, and just maybe the new Christian’s thought that it may be a good idea.

Running around promoting “Glossolalia” instead of The “Gospel According to Jesus Christ”! Jesus never, He Never even mention anything of such foolishness! It is not a part of “The GOSPEL ACCORDING To Jesus Christ” HE is Our LORD! We obey Him! And not Paul! If you want to following in the footsteps of the Corrupted Church in Corinth then do so!

And trying to lead others into “Falsehood” we do not like “Barbaric” practicing people.

If you want to do Hoodoo do it in your own house, and take all your cult speaking buddy’s with you! And burn candles with the lights out, So y’all can be in privacy and on one accord.

I ain’t going for it, to me it is a great and alarming way to invite a host of Demonic forces into one’s life, “Strongholds”.

1st. Demon the demon of deception.

2nd demon, blocking Demon

3rd demon the demon that promote lies with convictions

4. Demon, controlling Demon:= as a angel of light

5. Demon, The demon of confusion to confuse others, who are sound leading them astray and be uncertain of TRUTH that they have!

6. Demon, a demon that sows discord among The Brethern! On behaved of “The Language of Confusion”

7. The Demon of “Blindness” from The Collective Truths that is plainly before one’s Face, just like the blindness of those who sought The Door at Lots house! Although the Door was right in front of them.
Those are only examples.

Now, once you travel that Road, it will be a long Road back home, And the path will be Dark! With only a little light in front of you , because you have travel a long distance from The Truth’s path and you must back track.

Now you can take these words and think about it, as you read your whole Bible and not partial sentences and paragraphs. Or throw them under your feet and “trample them underneath your feet and keep it moving”

For deception is everywhere, appearing as a Angel of Light”! And that is where the most danger lies.

“The Angel that Appears as a angel of Light”. Satan is a Angel who appears as a Angel of Light. He is a Angel not a Devil!
And “Pretty Too” Beautiful he is, crafty too!

 

[God's Truth]

@B-A-C @Rhema @Curtis @Shaolin @Bob Carabbio @Mayflower @GRACE ambassador @Christ4Ever @Chad @ladylovesJesus @AndyX @complete

Which had occurred before Pentecost.

Now read the witness of what was to come at Pentecost; their salvation moment.


When comparing the above scripture with the one below;


This is why His remaining disciples were saved at Pentecost so they can share in the same testimonies as every one else that believes in Him after His ascension.


Otherwise doubts would have arisen because believers would be tempted to have doubts when Jesus did not baptized them with the Holy Ghost directly as some of His disciples were per John 20:22.

The difference between Judas Iscariot and His disciples is what?

Now please note how Thomas was not with them in John 20:22.

I can see why they were actually born again of the Spirit at Pentecost so they can be like other believers in having received the promise of the Spirit from the Father by faith in Jesus Christ rather than by sight of Jesus Christ.

As it is, once His disciples were born again of the Spirit at their salvation moment, there is no receiving Him again so that all believers can receive this warning so we can keep the faith against those spirits of the antichrist.

If you are going to refer to predestination, we do have to apply His words for when they did become children of God, on earth because there was a time by His words, they were not children of God on earth.

What I said has nothing to do with predestination.

They were not saved yet either until Pentecost for when that born again of the Spirit moment was to happen when He was no longer present with His disciples but had gone to God the Father in Heaven..

They might not have been born again, but as I keep telling you, they were considered saved and not condemned.

You did know that Paradise, also known as Abraham's bosom, was located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell when Jesus was on earth but now Paradise is in Heaven since His ascension?

Of course.
I am telling you about Abraham's bosom because you keep claiming the apostles to the Lamb weren't saved. Jesus says plainly he didn't lose any, of course except Judas who was chosen to be the betrayer, and if the apostles weren't saved and died, they wouldn't have went to hell but to Abraham's bosom where the other righteous were.

King Saul had consulted with a medium to call up the spirit of the prophet Samuel from beneath the earth and Samuel did prophesy from the Lord an end to King Saul & his two sons in 1 Samuel 28th chapter and then Paul testified indirectly of the apostle John & the Book of Revelation whereby John was taken up to the third heaven where Paradise now is in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4

What does that have to do with anything?

Anyway, there is necessity for His disciples to be officially saved at Pentecost otherwise, the apostasy you & I see where saved believers believe they can receive the Holy Ghost again and again and again is happening in these latter days.

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Those who lived and died while believing and obeying God, they were called righteous people, and they were loved by God and He had a covenant with them. They were able to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit. When they died they did not go to hell/prison like the disobedient did.

However, when Jesus came and died for us, our repentance and faith in Jesus is how we receive his Spirit and are born again.
The apostles, just like the righteous from the Old Testament times...all had to wait for the Spirit to be given after Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit in order for anyone to be born again.

I think you are getting saved and born again mixed up because since the Holy Spirit was given after Jesus' ascension, it is the same thing---to be saved and born again, but it was not always that way.

In keeping the faith which is the good fight, His disciples were saved at Pentecost when Jesus was no longer physically present with them. By ascending to Heaven, He began making citizens of Heaven at and since Pentecost. That is why there is no receiving the Holy Ghost again after salvation; not for us, and not for His disciples for that was when they were actually saved at Pentecost.

You keep bringing up and asking why was Judas Iscariot not saved. I keep telling you why, but you still keep asking.

He was lost because he was a devil and would not repent of his sins and was chosen for the fulfillment of the scriptures.

He was chosen because God knew he would betray Jesus, for Jesus dying for our sins was the plan for salvation before anything was made.

The prophets and righteous people of the Old Testament times were saved in that they had a relationship with God, they were called God's children, God and a covenant with them,

 

[God's Truth]

@Curtis @Shaolin @Bob Carabbio @Mayflower @GRACE ambassador @Christ4Ever @Chad @ladylovesJesus @AndyX @complete @B-A-C @God's Truth

How can it faze me when self respect does not apply to me in His ministry when we are nothing?

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 3;4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Do you believe that if a professing Christian does not speak in tongues, he does not have the Holy Spirit and therefore he is not saved? Were you not defending that portion of Talk Jesus's Statement of faith as if applied to that meaning?



And yet YOU separate yourself from the body of Christ by boasting of having another drink of the One Spirit from what we were all baptized by and YOU separate yourself by claiming tongues not only as a sign of salvation but for private use also. You are the one preaching extra. You are the one exalting yourself over other believers. You are the one ignoring this warning from Jesus for seeking salvation as if by a sign rather than by believing in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Calling you to repent and return to your first love because the gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same gospel you are preaching which is the gospel of tongues as if we are seeking to be saved by speaking in tongues; not.

What you are doing is a bad sin showing a bad condition of your heart, for you have been personally private messaging me many times for a while and speaking to me about very personal matters concerning you and your life, and I have been a good friend to you.
You couldn't go against me and prove your false beliefs with scriptures, so you decided to be a false accuser against me. My screen name "God's Truth" was the name I had here the whole time I joined TalkJesus, and you never imagined evil about it or me until you couldn't defend your false teachings with scripture.

 

[GodB4Us]

What I said has nothing to do with predestination.

Then explain how their names were written in Heaven when His disciples and those in the O.T. who have died in faith, had not received the promise yet while Jesus was still on earth?

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

They might not have been born again, but as I keep telling you, they were considered saved and not condemned.

Let's apply truth from His words.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Were not His disciples found in unbelief?

Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Seems to me that they need Him to help them believe in Him again. So what is it that you had discern that they were saved before Pentecost or that their names were written in heaven? Could verse 20 be future tense at Pentecost?

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

You say they are not born again yet and so ....

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

By the way, how do you apply for sinners to reent from all sins first if we were born of God and not by the will of the flesh nor the will of man? Would not repenting from all sins mean this was also done by the will of flesh & will of man?

Of course.
I am telling you about Abraham's bosom because you keep claiming the apostles to the Lamb weren't saved. Jesus says plainly he didn't lose any, of course except Judas who was chosen to be the betrayer, and if the apostles weren't saved and died, they wouldn't have went to hell but to Abraham's bosom where the other righteous were.

I reckon my seeing those in Abraham's bosom as not having received the promise yet as not saved yet when we all need Christ to bring us to God; hence acsneing to Heaven to give us that seal of adoption in becming a citizen of Heaven. He had to ascend first to provide the wa for us as He is the way and why we are going to Heaven to live with God forever.

I reckon I can see your point of view that those in Abraham's bosom were not condemned but clarity is sorely needed because they still needed Christ Jesus to bring them to heaven which was the end of their faith in God to do.

What does that have to do with anything?

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Then the born again of the Spirit and that one baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at our salvation right? And never again. So what did His disciples had received in Matthew 10:1-20 & John 20:22 from what they had ereceived at Pentecost?

Those who lived and died while believing and obeying God, they were called righteous people, and they were loved by God and He had a covenant with them. They were able to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit. When they died they did not go to hell/prison like the disobedient did.

Per the Old Covenant, I can understand your reference but not quite convincing me that the apostles were saved before Pentecost.

However, when Jesus came and died for us, our repentance and faith in Jesus is how we receive his Spirit and are born again.
The apostles, just like the righteous from the Old Testament times...all had to wait for the Spirit to be given after Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit in order for anyone to be born again.

I think you are getting saved and born again mixed up because since the Holy Spirit was given after Jesus' ascension, it is the same thing---to be saved and born again, but it was not always that way.

To be born again of the Spirit in becoming a citizen of Heaven, Jesus had to ascend to Heaven first in leading the way for how He can bring us to God. Therefore salvation is not obtained by believing in Him until He had done this.

You keep bringing up and asking why was Judas Iscariot not saved. I keep telling you why, but you still keep asking.

He was lost because he was a devil and would not repent of his sins and was chosen for the fulfillment of the scriptures.

He was chosen because God knew he would betray Jesus, for Jesus dying for our sins was the plan for salvation before anything was made.

The prophets and righteous people of the Old Testament times were saved in that they had a relationship with God, they were called God's children, God and a covenant with them,

Still, none of them had received the promise yet until Jesus had resurrected and had ascended to Heaven as the First Fruit being able to bring everyone that believes in Him afterwards to God by making them citizens of Heaven. That started at Pentecost and not before.