Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[PloughBoy]

Many fell to believe that they believe also in a salvation by “Works”and not by “Grace” alone.

fall from grace, really, then you got to work yourself back Up to Grace?
In other words believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and you MIGHT get Saved if you can keep it up until the end. So it is not a promise but if you can stay saved for the next 50 years you might get saved. But you better not fall from Grace , if you do you going to hell! So it might be better if you still “Egypt “.

 

[Garee]

My apologies if I misunderstand you, but are you saying that the Holy Spirit cannot depart from us once He’s filled us or come upon us?

If the Spirit of Christ which works in us is our very confidence as the author and finisher of our new faith . Why would we believe he would depart?

Christians receive the end of the confidence of his labor of love that works in us from the beginning.

We are warned of those who would seduce us to believe we do need a man to teach us.as in I heard it through the grapevine, oral traditions of mankind

Why would sons of God believers venerate or edify powerless corrupted mankind for the work that only Christ can perform ?

Philipian1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 Peter1: 8-9 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The tongue of God is prophecy . Falling backward slain = The spirit the spirit of judgement , some Jews that followed "I heard it through the grape vine" as oral traditions of mankind mocked it .

It is also why the tribe of Dan is missing from the tribes listed as the bride of Christ the church in the bok of revelation reveling to us .there will be no letter of the law, death, in the new order .death wil be destroyed

It is why the foundation of the doctrine as a law (Isaiah 28) not subject to change is valuable . it is repeated in 1 Corinthians 14:21 :


Isaiah 28 But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

It reconciles with the spirit of judgment those who fall backward bitten by a false gospel or serpents coming from false apostles as a brood of vipers (an oral tradition of men ) They refuse to hear the gospel as it is written (sola scriptura)


Genesis 49:16-17King James Version Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.


Again the tribe of Dan missing to indicate death is not part of the new order Likewise as a example to the power of Judgment I AM He
the power of the word moved them to include Judas (the focus) backwards as slain in the spirit .

Dan signified as the spirit of judgment of those who fall backward to the ground .In that way both the tribe of Dan and the false apostle Judas will not be part of the new order.

Both foundations, the doctrine of tongues and the doctrine of the spirit of judgment working as one.

John 18:5-6 King James Version5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

 

[PloughBoy]

This Tongues thing on talk Jesus is getting to be more important than The WORD of GOD! You would think Salvation comes through “Tongues” and not “Jesus The Anointed One” if you was a person seeking salvation.

 

[PloughBoy]

Many fail to believe that they believe also in a salvation by “Works”and not by “Grace” alone.

fall from grace, really, then you got to work yourself back Up to Grace?
In other words believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and you MIGHT get Saved if you can keep it up until the end. So it is not a promise but if you can stay saved for the next 50 years you might get saved. But you better not fall from Grace , if you do you going to hell! So it might be better if you still “stayed in Egypt “.

 

[PloughBoy]

You have been “Sealed” by The Holy Ghost, You trusted Jesus to save you, For GOD will Keep His Own. And believe this He knows how

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Yes. He actually gives us the Holy Ghost…to convict us….to help keep us on the straight and narrow. So how does that refute the fact that we CAN in fact fall?

It doesn't. And I didn't say it did. What I SAID WAS when we get in danger, HE sends "Wake up calls". You ignored that.

In fact, there’s a large portion of the NT dedicated to warning believers about that very thing.

Hebrews 6:4 is probably the best one.

 

[Garee]

Two acts of baptism make one doctrine - they go together and are mandatory - you must have both and they often occur simultaneously.

Yes two , (1) the metaphor used as a shdow of the unseen eternal and (2)the unseen eternal a work of God's unseen Holy Spirit who works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure .As a ceremonial law or shadow the old testament foundation that introduces new priest . When Aaron two sons tried to make it all about self-edifications (I did it it proves it) or self veneration. . they died went up in smoke .

Jesus from the tribe of Judah established the new kingdom of priest men and woman from all the nations of world holding out the gospel of peace (the father and Son as one God) Water can be used to represent the washing and renewinf work of God even today but to accredit it to corrupted flesh and blood

That is not a biblical teaching. It comes form those who seek after signs before they will commit to the faith of Christ 's labor of love or work of faith (Do it prove)

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye seek signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

They made Jesus into a circus seal that they night keep their I heard it through the grapevine oral tradition of mankind .
No sign was given

H20 evaporates the Holy Spirit (water of the word) is eternal

One new ceremonial law as a shadow was added to represent the reformed order found in 1 Corinthians 11 .

Some worship the shadows of ceremonies with strange fire. .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why would I do that when I agree with it? Where did I once say that salvation wasn’t a gift of God?

And the Gift is FAITH as the verse says. Simple as that. Where are "Works" presented as a necessary component?? (James 1 doesn't support that they are either).

 

[vhusley]

If the Spirit of Christ which works in us is our very confidence as the author and finisher of our new faith . Why would we believe he would depart?

Christians receive the end of the confidence of his labor of love that works in us from the beginning.

We are warned of those who would seduce us to believe we do need a man to teach us.as in I heard it through the grapevine, oral traditions of mankind

Why would sons of God believers venerate or edify powerless corrupted mankind for the work that only Christ can perform ?

Philipian1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 Peter1: 8-9 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The tongue of God is prophecy . Falling backward slain = The spirit the spirit of judgement , some Jews that followed "I heard it through the grape vine" as oral traditions of mankind mocked it .

It is also why the tribe of Dan is missing from the tribes listed as the bride of Christ the church in the bok of revelation reveling to us .there will be no letter of the law, death, in the new order .death wil be destroyed

It is why the foundation of the doctrine as a law (Isaiah 28) not subject to change is valuable . it is repeated in 1 Corinthians 14:21 :


Isaiah 28 But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

It reconciles with the spirit of judgment those who fall backward bitten by a false gospel or serpents coming from false apostles as a brood of vipers (an oral tradition of men ) They refuse to hear the gospel as it is written (sola scriptura)


Genesis 49:16-17King James Version Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.


Again the tribe of Dan missing to indicate death is not part of the new order Likewise as a example to the power of Judgment I AM He
the power of the word moved them to include Judas (the focus) backwards as slain in the spirit .

Dan signified as the spirit of judgment of those who fall backward to the ground .In that way both the tribe of Dan and the false apostle Judas will not be part of the new order.

Both foundations, the doctrine of tongues and the doctrine of the spirit of judgment working as one.

John 18:5-6 King James Version5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

So is apostasy a real thing or not? We can’t fall away? To whom are all of these warnings in NT directed then? The lost can’t fall away, can they? They’re already “away”.

 

[vhusley]

It doesn't. And I didn't say it did. What I SAID WAS when we get in danger, HE sends "Wake up calls". You ignored that.



Hebrews 6:4 is probably the best one.

If you truly believe that man can’t fall from grace, can put himself in danger of losing his salvation….then I’m sorry, but you just aren’t following the same Word of God that I am I suppose. Who are all of NT warnings of “falling away” directed to? The lost? Can’t be…..the lost are already “away”.

 

[PloughBoy]

There are many in the institutional organize church system who call themselves Christians and many who call them Christians , They read their Bibles, they are faithful members in good standing with “Their Church “ in every way , many hold offices in their church and are leaders in their church. They know scripture. And many members as a whole wide world of collected churches together are not “The True Children of GOD” and God knows this, and in His Word in a some what matter He Addresses this issue. These Christians are actually wolves in sheep clothing and the church has put the sheep clothing on them. And these wolves really think they are sheep! But when they continue to read their Bibles, That something ain’t right. As they read their Bibles the clothing do not fit but yet the leader have told them they are sheep, some all their lives they have told them that they were sheep! But now when they read their Bibles, and the Holy Spirit enlightened them, fear swallow them up! Now they search for the Truth, but many are still fed lies to them by the church! Then in secret they cry out for help! Because the book of “Hebrews” frightened the hell out of them and some repent and acknowledge the real truth about themselves that they were never saved from the beginning but only church going baptized members Bible reading who people called Christians because of how they lived and they said they believed in Jesus. But they have read the Bible for themselves now and they see they do not have the “criteria” of “True Child of GOD” which The Mystery of GOD begins its work of “The Way of Salvation” in that person life.

That person thought they was saved and others per claim that they was saved but in reality they never was, they where only good little faith church people or church Christians .

 

[PloughBoy]

There are many in the institutional organize church system who call themselves Christians and many who call them Christians , They read their Bibles, they are faithful members in good standing with “Their Church “ in every way , many hold offices in their church and are leaders in their church. They know scripture. And many members as a whole wide world of collected churches together are not “The True Children of GOD” and God knows this, and in His Word in a some what matter He Addresses this issue. These Christians are actually wolves in sheep clothing and the church has put the sheep clothing on them. And these wolves really think they are sheep! But when they continue to read their Bibles, That something ain’t right. As they read their Bibles the clothing do not fit but yet the leader have told them they are sheep, some all their lives they have told them that they were sheep! But now when they read their Bibles, and the Holy Spirit enlightened them, fear swallow them up! Now they search for the Truth, but many are still fed lies to them by the church! Then in secret they cry out for help! Because the book of “Hebrews” frightened the hell out of them and some repent and acknowledge the real truth about themselves that they were never saved from the beginning but only church going baptized members Bible reading who people called Christians because of how they lived and they said they believed in Jesus. But they have read the Bible for themselves now and they see they do not have the “criteria” of “True Child of GOD” which The Mystery of GOD begins its work of “The Way of Salvation” in that person life.

That person thought they was saved and others per claim that they was saved but in reality they never was, they where only good little faith church people or church Christians .
[/QUOTE
Now when these type of people renounce Christianity and walk away this is what true “Apostasy” is. You can always walk away from Christianity but you cannot stop or walk away from being a True Child of The Living GOD”. Those people never stayed around long enough or they are not the True Children of GOD that was created before the foundations of The World to be so. For we are the Good seed that was planted on the earth to be cultivated.

 

[Reba1]

Do you believe in “eternal security”….that “once saved, always saved?” If so, there’s no need to quote anything.

I wondered what line you would come up with because you know you can not find a quote of mine that says what you have implied.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ . Salvation is of the Lord

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Psa_37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
Psa_3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Psa_62:7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Psa_79:9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Co_1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[PloughBoy]

For we who been chosen had the victory before the foundations of The World! Chosen by GOD for HIS Divine Purpose. Woven into creation. To be conformed into the image of His only begotten SON.

 

[vhusley]

I wondered what line you would come up with because you know you can not find a quote of mine that says what you have implied.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ . Salvation is of the Lord

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Psa_37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
Psa_3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Psa_62:7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Psa_79:9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Co_1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Okay. I wasn’t trying to be confrontational. I’m sorry if that’s how I came across. I don’t know what you’re trying to show me or prove to me, but please forgive me. And I will just end this interaction as it is proving to be fruitless. Be blessed!

 

[vhusley]

You have been “Sealed” by The Holy Ghost, You trusted Jesus to save you, For GOD will Keep His Own. And believe this He knows how

Seals can be broken and sometimes were in the Bible. Was circumcision a seal between God and man? Look it up.
“He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised….” -Romans 4:11

“yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.” -Galatians 2:16

The fact that the Holy Spirit was poured out to the Gentiles was also proof that the “seal” of circumcision had been broken.
In John’s Revelation, the Angel of the Lord also “breaks open” seals that had been placed there by God. God didn’t break them, an Angel did. Seals can be, will be, and are broken sometimes for various reasons. God’s seal upon us is no different. Scripture supports this. Paul handed a believer over to Satan so that he may be physically destroyed with the hope that in the end his soul may be saved.
In Romans 1:24-28 God “hands or gives believers over to their sins and to the lusts of their hearts and minds”
Some later (and quite accurate) translations even say “He gave them up….”
Can that “seal” of salvation be broken or removed? God’s Word sure seems to say that.

 

[Waggles]

Why oh why can’t believers see this?! It breaks my heart that people believe that they can be saved once, fall back into a life of sin, and still have a clean ticket to heaven.

That comes across like old time Roman Catholicism there.
"I've got a golden ticket."

 

[Waggles]

OSAS is bunk. A false doctrine based on confusion about the faithfulness of God who will not leave nor depart from a Spirit-filled Christian.
But on the otherhand Spirit-filled Christians are not always faithful.

One day about 6PM I was walking past the local police station when a young man came out from there. He hailed me and asked me for a light (to smoke his cigarette).
I replied to him along the lines that I do not smoke cigarettes anymore and sorry but I did not have a lighter.
This led into a conversation where I spoke to him about my testimony on how the baptism of the Holy Spirit had set me free from smoking tobacco and marijuana.
I talked to him about praying in tongues by the Spirit, and this young said to me that he knew exactly what I was talking of as he too was born new again by water and the Spirit
and could pray in tongues.
But he went on to say that he had not remained faithful to Jesus and the gospel and had backslidden into the world and was now a junkie shooting up drugs.
He showed me his arms and they were pretty black and blue from all the needles he was using.
This young man was sobbing that Jesus had left him because he was a backslider and a sinner again.
I told him that Jesus was ever faithful and that the Holy Spirit was still dwelling inside him, but that he had quenched and silenced the Holy Spirit (which he still had).
We walked across the road to a vacant block and I laid hands on him and prayed in tongues. Then I said now you can do this yourself and he also started praying in tongues.
You should have seen the joy that came to his face.
Then and there he understood that God is ever faithful and that he could still pray to overcome his carnal life and come back to the grace and mercy of God. He was not doomed to remain a junkie without hope.

Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit is only day one of a lifelong journey - the challenge is to stay saved and to endure to the end.

 

[vhusley]

OSAS is bunk. A false doctrine based on confusion about the faithfulness of God who will not leave nor depart from a Spirit-filled Christian.
But on the otherhand Spirit-filled Christians are not always faithful.

One day about 6PM I was walking past the local police station when a young man came out from there. He hailed me and asked me for a light (to smoke his cigarette).
I replied to him along the lines that I do not smoke cigarettes anymore and sorry but I did not have a lighter.
This led into a conversation where I spoke to him about my testimony on how the baptism of the Holy Spirit had set me free from smoking tobacco and marijuana.
I talked to him about praying in tongues by the Spirit, and this young said to me that he knew exactly what I was talking of as he too was born new again by water and the Spirit
and could pray in tongues.
But he went on to say that he had not remained faithful to Jesus and the gospel and had backslidden into the world and was now a junkie shooting up drugs.
He showed me his arms and they were pretty black and blue from all the needles he was using.
This young man was sobbing that Jesus had left him because he was a backslider and a sinner again.
I told him that Jesus was ever faithful and that the Holy Spirit was still dwelling inside him, but that he had quenched and silenced the Holy Spirit (which he still had).
We walked across the road to a vacant block and I laid hands on him and prayed in tongues. Then I said now you can do this yourself and he also started praying in tongues.
You should have seen the joy that came to his face.
Then and there he understood that God is ever faithful and that he could still pray to overcome his carnal life and come back to the grace and mercy of God. He was not doomed to remain a junkie without hope.

Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit is only day one of a lifelong journey - the challenge is to stay saved and to endure to the end.

Powerful! Thanks for sharing that! What a testimony to God’s grace and mercy….and also to the danger of a backslidden life. Backsliding into a life of sin….even after being redeemed and filled with His Holy Spirit, always puts the believer in a dangerous situation where his heart becomes hardened against the ways of God. I just believe Jesus when He warns us that not everyone who calls upon His name (knew Him) would enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but “those who do the will of His Father.” The will of the Father is not to live a worldly, sin-filled life.

But praise God for His mercy and willingness to receive a repentant soul back into His fold!

 

[Waggles]

But praise God for His mercy and willingness to receive a repentant soul back into His fold!

Luke 15:4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?
5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’
7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.