Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[vhusley]

You will find about half the people here are Calvinist to varying degrees. A number of them believe is OSAS.. (once saved, always saved) this has been debated numerous times here.
Eph 1:14; 2Cor 1:22; and Hebrews 13:5; are often quoted to support this.

Thanks. Yes, after reading through several threads I began to notice that trend. They’re a fairly entrenched bunch. Tough to get them to accept anything other than their own understanding of scripture. (By “their own” I actually mean the theology of that tight-knit circle of theologists that they adhere to and so often defer to: RC Sproul, Justin Peters, J. MacArthur, Costi Hinn, Dustin Benge, etc). It’s sad to see so many people fall into this doctrinal rut that pretty much renders the Holy Spirit “powerless” in their lives and in their churches.

 

[vhusley]

Yup - "Baptism" (in water) has nothing to do with Being Born Again by FAITH. It's what you do AFTER being Born Again.

Hmm. Okay. That’s quite a different take on the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit that I’ve read so much about in scripture.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?” -James 2:14

Absolutely - when one is Born Again, then THAT FAITH will CHANGE the person, and then result in "Good works". Read the passage again -

As Spurgeon said: "A FAITH that doesn't CHANGE a person won't save them either."
or Melancthon: "It is FAITH ALONE that saves - but the FAITH THAT SAVES will never be alone."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hmm. Okay. That’s quite a different take on the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit that I’ve read so much about in scripture.

I was Born Again and Changed on Wednesday night. Thursday morning I was no longer a "Smoker" - after a decade of 3-pack a day smoking - no withdrawal - nothing - like I'd never smoked in my life. A definite sign to me that things had changed miraculously. And the following Sunday night (When the Baptist church did their baptisms) I was baptized in water by immersion in the three titles. NOTHING changed (except my wet clothes).

 

[Reba1]

Hebrews 6:1 Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of the Christ, let us be borne on unto the perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,-
2 the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if only God permit.

Is the word baptisms plural?

 

[Reba1]

Thanks. Yes, after reading through several threads I began to notice that trend. They’re a fairly entrenched bunch. Tough to get them to accept anything other than their own understanding of scripture. (By “their own” I actually mean the theology of that tight-knit circle of theologists that they adhere to and so often defer to: RC Sproul, Justin Peters, J. MacArthur, Costi Hinn, Dustin Benge, etc). It’s sad to see so many people fall into this doctrinal rut that pretty much renders the Holy Spirit “powerless” in their lives and in their churches.

So true of us all

 

[vhusley]

Absolutely - when one is Born Again, then THAT FAITH will CHANGE the person, and then result in "Good works". Read the passage again -

As Spurgeon said: "A FAITH that doesn't CHANGE a person won't save them either."
or Melancthon: "It is FAITH ALONE that saves - but the FAITH THAT SAVES will never be alone."

Thanks. Spurgeon was a great preacher, but I’d rather rely on what the Word of God says.
Faith alone can’t save. Faith is simply the key that unlocks the door to salvation. Faith is the condition that makes it possible for God to “open the door” to allow His Holy Spirit in to begin the process. God has given each of us a “measure of faith” sufficient to get us to that point…that’s scriptural. But we are required to act upon it….that’s scriptural as well. James was pretty clear…..Faith can’t save us.
“Even the demons believe” that God is who He says He is “and tremble….” But they will not be saved. Belief isn’t enough, Faith isn’t enough, simply calling upon the name of the Lord isn’t enough. If it were, God could’ve just thrown out the rest of His Word and left us Romans 10. So why didn’t he? (That’s a rhetorical question by the way) It’s obvious why He didn’t. Because there is MORE that we needed to know. Rightly divide the Word of truth my friend….RIGHTLY divide it

 

[vhusley]

I was Born Again and Changed on Wednesday night. Thursday morning I was no longer a "Smoker" - after a decade of 3-pack a day smoking - no withdrawal - nothing - like I'd never smoked in my life. A definite sign to me that things had changed miraculously. And the following Sunday night (When the Baptist church did their baptisms) I was baptized in water by immersion in the three titles. NOTHING changed (except my wet clothes).

Praise God. That’s called deliverance brother. It’s a miraculous act of God’s grace and can happen in an instant! I thank God for your deliverance and give Him all the glory!
But salvation is still a life-long process. One must STAY saved. We CAN fall from that grace and people often do. That’s biblical as well my friend.

 

[PloughBoy]

Thank God, that God has not left “The WAY” of Salvation into the hands of mankind. Because if HE did by the testimony of the things I have read today on this thread, no one could ever get saved but run into the other direction for their life and sanity, in hope of finding “The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY “ or HIM finding them. And please do not judge my statement because you just might not understand the full meaning

 

[vhusley]

Thank God, that God has not left “The WAY” of Salvation into the hands of mankind. Because if HE did by the testimony of the things I have read today on this thread, no one could ever get saved but run into the other direction for their life and sanity, in hope of finding “The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY “ or HIM finding them. And please do not judge my statement because you just might not understand the full meaning

Sadly, not many will be saved. Jesus Himself said as much. “Narrow is the gate that leads to life, and few will find it.” What’s your definition of “few”?

 

[PloughBoy]

Sadly, not many will be saved. Jesus Himself said as much. “Narrow is the gate that leads to life, and few will find it.” What’s your definition of “few”?

The English word is Few not the Original Word that was spoken of God: Example: Thousand upon thousands was on the earth before the flood but only a few was saved, “eight” humans. Sodom and Gomorrah and some of the surrounding cities in that region was destroyed and only a few was saved “Lot” and His Family minus his wife when she look back for the desires of that land. Only a few was saved. Then so was it in Noah’s day so will it be in the things to come. Many are on the wide path but only a few is on the hard and narrow path and plus only a few of them will find it. Now that is tight. Only elbow room. And I get up early.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We CAN fall from that grace and people often do. That’s biblical as well my friend.

Agreed, BUT it's actually not quite that simple - He does send "Wake-up calls" (sometime pretty brutal ones) to get our attention before it's too late (guess how I know that).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Thanks. Spurgeon was a great preacher, but I’d rather rely on what the Word of God says.
Faith alone can’t save.

Then argue with Eph 2:8,9 which disagrees with your "interpretation" of the Word of God.

 

[vhusley]

Then argue with Eph 2:8,9 which disagrees with your "interpretation" of the Word of God.

Why would I do that when I agree with it? Where did I once say that salvation wasn’t a gift of God?

 

[vhusley]

Agreed, BUT it's actually not quite that simple - He does send "Wake-up calls" (sometime pretty brutal ones) to get our attention before it's too late (guess how I know that).

Yes. He actually gives us the Holy Ghost…to convict us….to help keep us on the straight and narrow. So how does that refute the fact that we CAN in fact fall? In fact, there’s a large portion of the NT dedicated to warning believers about that very thing. Scripture upon scripture. I’d be more than happy to point you to these. We’ll be here awhile, but I’ll gladly do it. Apostasy was a real concern then, just as it is today, and STAYING saved therefore, was/is a necessity.
Before we go further, let’s consider one very important question: who was Pauls’s audience in literally every writing with which he is credited? That’s right….the “brethren”….the church…..believers. The vast majority of his preaching/teaching wasn’t targeting the lost. Now then….let’s look at scripture in the correct context.

 

[Reba1]

Human centered salvation,

 

[vhusley]

Human centered salvation,

I’m not even sure what that means. If you’re claiming that I believe that we are saved by our own works….you are mistaken. You’d just be pointing a finger and repeating that same old Calvinist mantra….
It’s not our “works” that I’m talking about. it’s called meeting CONDITIONS. What I know (not just believe) is, that God gives no gift nor does He make ANY promise without conditions attached. Go ahead try and use scripture to disprove that. Someone could offer you a “free gift”…..all you have to do is “show up,” “answer the door,” “reach out and take it,” actually “RECEIVE it,” or “make room for it in your life”, etc, before it’s actually yours. All of these are CONDITIONS that must be met before the gift is yours. The Bible is absolutely full of God’s promises AND the conditions that are required for His people to experience them. Also, it must be noted that gifts, even free ones, can be rejected or even tossed away over time. This is why Paul, James, Peter, Luke, and other NT authors, and Jesus Himself all give us so many warnings about not straying from the path of righteousness, about being/living holy, about bearing spiritual fruit, about bad branches and them being removed and cast into fire, about sacrificing (taking up our cross) daily, about narrow gates and narrow paths…..
Why oh why can’t believers see this?! It breaks my heart that people believe that they can be saved once, fall back into a life of sin, and still have a clean ticket to heaven.
Salvation is an ongoing work of God’s Holy Spirit. Staying saved…keeping that free gift in our heart, has conditions that must be met. Jesus didn’t bear our sins on the tree so that we could go back to a life of sin. God don’t save us to become unrepentant backsliders. He expects us to meet the CONDITIONS of Kingdom inheritance. It’s all there in God’s Word.

 

[Reba1]

I’m not even sure what that means. If you’re claiming that I believe that we are saved by our own works….you are mistaken. You’d just be pointing a finger and repeating that same old Calvinist mantra….
It’s not our “works” that I’m talking about. it’s called meeting CONDITIONS. What I know (not just believe) is, that God gives no gift nor does He make ANY promise without conditions attached. Go ahead try and use scripture to disprove that. Someone could offer you a “free gift”…..all you have to do is “show up,” “answer the door,” “reach out and take it,” actually “RECEIVE it,” or “make room for it in your life”, etc, before it’s actually yours. All of these are CONDITIONS that must be met before the gift is yours. The Bible is absolutely full of God’s promises AND the conditions that are required for His people to experience them. Also, it must be noted that gifts, even free ones, can be rejected or even tossed away over time. This is why Paul, James, Peter, Luke, and other NT authors, and Jesus Himself all give us so many warnings about not straying from the path of righteousness, about being/living holy, about bearing spiritual fruit, about bad branches and them being removed and cast into fire, about sacrificing (taking up our cross) daily, about narrow gates and narrow paths…..
Why oh why can’t believers see this?! It breaks my heart that people believe that they can be saved once, fall back into a life of sin, and still have a clean ticket to heaven.
Salvation is an ongoing work of God’s Holy Spirit. Staying saved…keeping that free gift in our heart, has conditions that must be met. Jesus didn’t bear our sins on the tree so that we could go back to a life of sin. God don’t save us to become unrepentant backsliders. He expects us to meet the CONDITIONS of Kingdom inheritance. It’s all there in God’s Word.

Totally agree about conditions, we see that , way back in the Covenant with Abraham, Noah etc.

You quoted me above please take the time to find a quote where i have said or even implied what this says

It breaks my heart that people believe that they can be saved once, fall back into a life of sin, and still have a clean ticket to heaven.

 

[vhusley]

Totally agree about conditions, we see that , way back in the Covenant with Abraham, Noah etc.

You quoted me above please take the time to find a quote where i have said or even implied what this says

Do you believe in “eternal security”….that “once saved, always saved?” If so, there’s no need to quote anything.

 

[PloughBoy]

like I have said on many occasions on TalkJesus a lot of Christians-have become full blow “Pelagians” in their thinking.