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The Trinity - True or False

Do you Believe the Trinity


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its amazing how a topic like this can be divisive. It is ironic that the topic is about a God of love and yet heated disagreements or even divisions can occur if they are allowed to be over matters such as this.

I suggest we look at what unites us rather than what divides. My own personal take on the trinity is more of a triune Godhead (three presences as one) where Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three entities but united in God's love and these make the Godhead. Yes it is true that it says in the bible that some things the Father alone knows and the son doesn't but as Jesus is Son of God he must have part of God within Him and as the Holy Spirit is created by God, God the Father must have given part of His nature when He created this Spirit. However, i see that the three appear as one and that Jesus was only separated from God when he died on the cross (my God my God why has thou foresaken me) which shows God's love for us and puts John 3:16 in context. Remember also he is the way the truth and the life and noone comes to the Father but by him

Finally we must also be careful in such discussions as it mentions the unforgiveable sin as grieving the Holy Spirit so if we cast doubt on the divinity of the Godhead we need to be watchful, even if well intentioned.

God bless you all
 
Joh 14:28 Keep in mind how I said to you, I go away and come to you again. If you had love for me you would be glad, because I am going to the Father: for the Father is greater than I.

Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not put your hand on me, for I have not gone up to the Father: but go to my brothers and say to them, I go up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
I believe in the trinity. These verses can be perplexing, but I think when you sit down and think about Jesus as he was (God and Man), they make much sense and still support the trinity. This is just my take on this, but I figured I would just voice my two cents.

Explanation of the above verses from my POV:

When Jesus was in his part human form he did not always use all his power. He would do amazing things, and heal, and cure blindness, and sure many other miracles not recorded. He could easily have come down from the cross, but he did not. He did not however do everything as God, he withheld much of his power obviously.

Keeping these things in mind the above verses do not contradict the trinity. When Jesus said "The Father is Greater than I" he was not saying that he was no less part of the trinity, but in his current state in taking the form of a man (a sinless man) and living among men it is a more logically a reference to the fact that Jesus had given up much of his glory, and would soon return to that glory in full fellowship with the Father.

Take a quick look back at verse 7 where Jesus says "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also" indicating they were the same. THis is later in the chapter Jesus is continuing his teaching and the whole of the sermon must be understood.

As far as verse 20:17, God is God of everything, including himself :)

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, Why do you say I am good? no one is good but one, and that is God.

Mat 12:46 While he was still talking to the people, his mother and his brothers came, desiring to have talk with him.
Mat 12:47 And one said to him, See, your mother and your brothers are outside, desiring to have talk with you.
Mat 12:48 But he in answer said to him who gave the news, Who is my mother and who are my brothers?
Mat 12:49 And he put out his hand to his disciples and said, See, my mother and my brothers!
Mat 12:50 For whoever does the pleasure of my Father in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.
I think all of these in their proper context can be understood and not contradict the trinity.

Mark 10:18 Affirms the trinity more than contradicts it. Jesus is asking the Rich young ruler to affirm his Deity and accept him as Lord (to which the young rules quickly says no).

Matt 12 46-50 was just explaining the theme that earthly families do not necessarily reflect members of God's family (his sons and daughters). We are often taught that in fact believing in Jesus is likely to separate a home. Also Jesus is literally God's son, where as we can be made his son by belief and repentance.

Just my thought on the issue. I completely understand misunderstanding the trinity, or being confused by it, but if anyone questions the deity of Jesus Christ and claims to be a Christian... that is just dangerous and you are saying you believe in a man, and not God (I don't think anyone has said that so far, I am just voicing opinion).
 
Many people take God as a conscience being. I am not so sure of this. I think it is more like he is conscience and unconscience. Like, its hard to explain but we imagine a being that is invisible and everywhere and all powerfull and it has a mind. But if you really get to know your spirit and God, you realize God isnt a person, its, well, kind of like nature. Nature doesnt sin. Nature is perfect. We are all brothers and we are all one can be taken that we are connected through "God" and our spirits. We are connected to nature also. All living things i belive have spirits. That is what makes them alive. All living things dont exactly think like us, but they are all pure. My thinking can be quite out there and im not sure if i got my exact point across, but i tried. I bet there will be many comments about this and they are all welcome. Bless you all
 
What does this simple verse mean to you? One person of GOD or three persons of GOD?

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 5:30-32

30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Acts 7:55-57
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [ Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals ] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Trinity: Webster’s dictionary gives the following definition of trinity: “The union of three divine persons (or hypostases), the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one divinity, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three Persons (or hypostases as to individuality).” Synonyms sometimes used are triunity, trine, triality. The term “trinity” is formed from “tri,” three, and “nity,” unity. Triunity is a better term than “trinity” because it better expresses the idea of three in one. God is three in one. Hypostases is the plural of hypostasis which means “the substance, the underlying reality, or essence.”

Tri-theism. This is the teaching that there are three Gods who are sometimes related, but only in a loose association. Such an approach, abandons the biblical oneness of God and the unity within the Trinity

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Ephesians 4:4-6There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

James 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”

There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).

Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead.
  • In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament.
  • The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20).
  • The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.”
  • The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).
(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).

(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”

Ryrie writes: “Matthew 28:19 best states both the oneness and threeness by associating equally the three Persons and uniting them in one singular name. Other passages like Matthew 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 associate equally the three Persons but do not contain the strong emphasis on unity as does Matthew 28:19.”18

2 Cor. 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, tat you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

Dictionary:

Gentiles
(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.


In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1, 3; 18:17; Rom. 1:14), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation.
 
Hello There. Peace of Christ.

First of all....you have to understand, and Learn, what God said:

You say: "My OWN PERSONAL" Take on the trinity if that of a "TRIUNE GOD"
(Can I have the Chapter and verse please)....

Now This is what the God of the bible says.....

Isiah 58:5 "For my thoughts are not your thoughtsm neither my ways are your ways, declares "THE LORD" YHWH=JESUS (ONE ALONE) 9 as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways....higher that "YOUR WAYS" (Get it?!!!!!!!) and my thoughts thatn your thoughts..

Deut. 32:39 See now That "I MYSELF" (ONE) AM HE...And!!!!...there is no other god "BESIDES ME"...= John 8:24 Jesus says...Because If you do not believe that "I AM HE" (YHWH in human form) You will die in your sins....

Rev. 22:3 No longer will there be any curse . The Throne of God and of the Lamb (Not three, Only One, in Spirit and in Body)will be in the city. and "HIS" servants will serve "HIM" (ONE ALONE....unless you are iliterate biblical as educational, and you do not understand the meaning of "ALONE"....and "ONE"..then i will understand...

The trinity is the most lethal weapon satan has been using since the times of Noah....the first "TRIAD" was made with Nimrod, and his wife semiramis, and after Nimrod died he come back in was reborn through his wife as TAMMUZ" on Dec. 25....the SUN GOD.......satan started preparing the road for the last battle against Sons of The ALMIGHTY GOD........and has taken 99.9999% of the humans with him.....through this doctrine and Sunday, and NO name baptizm.......

God Bless..........................................Brother James

You state that satan invented this doctrine originally. Do you think it is possible for satan to come up with this all on his own or could it be possible that he just counterfeited what was already established from the beginning.
 
Hello There. Peace of Christ.

First of all....you have to understand, and Learn, what God said:

You say: "My OWN PERSONAL" Take on the trinity if that of a "TRIUNE GOD"
(Can I have the Chapter and verse please)....

Now This is what the God of the bible says.....

Isiah 58:5 "For my thoughts are not your thoughtsm neither my ways are your ways, declares "THE LORD" YHWH=JESUS (ONE ALONE) 9 as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways....higher that "YOUR WAYS" (Get it?!!!!!!!) and my thoughts thatn your thoughts..

Deut. 32:39 See now That "I MYSELF" (ONE) AM HE...And!!!!...there is no other god "BESIDES ME"...= John 8:24 Jesus says...Because If you do not believe that "I AM HE" (YHWH in human form) You will die in your sins....

Rev. 22:3 No longer will there be any curse . The Throne of God and of the Lamb (Not three, Only One, in Spirit and in Body)will be in the city. and "HIS" servants will serve "HIM" (ONE ALONE....unless you are iliterate biblical as educational, and you do not understand the meaning of "ALONE"....and "ONE"..then i will understand...

The trinity is the most lethal weapon satan has been using since the times of Noah....the first "TRIAD" was made with Nimrod, and his wife semiramis, and after Nimrod died he come back in was reborn through his wife as TAMMUZ" on Dec. 25....the SUN GOD.......satan started preparing the road for the last battle against Sons of The ALMIGHTY GOD........and has taken 99.9999% of the humans with him.....through this doctrine and Sunday, and NO name baptizm.......

God Bless..........................................Brother James

I don't see three thrones here but I do see two thrones, one is God's and the other is the Lamb's. It seems you are projecting "YOUR OWN PERSONAL" take here too.

You state that satan invented this doctrine originally. Do you think it is possible for satan to come up with this all on his own or could it be possible that he just counterfeited what was already established from the beginning.

IICorinthians 11:13-15
13*These people are false apostles. They have fooled you by disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14*But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. 15*So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve.
*
 
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My favorite football team has at least 50 team members on it.
Now, the word "team" is singular.
50 members is plural

I don't understand why you can understand the concept of a singular word having many members like a football team, and yet can't understand why one God can be three different persons.


OK how about this. I have an egg. This egg has many parts. It has a shell, a white, a yolk - - and yet it is one egg.
 
Only the blind and not so humble argue against the 3 persons of One GOD. The answer is there in front of our eyes all over Scripture yet some foolishly argue against it, or even worst make a big deal of the word "trinity".

If you cannot comprehend something that is not a secret, I cannot comprehend your views personally. The evidence is truth and written in the Book many times in so many ways to prove the 3 persons of GOD, how can one even argue against that?

Anyone that continues to argue against the 3 persons of GOD on this forum will have their account closed immediately for preaching unbiblical nonsense.
 
Hello jiggyfly. Peace of Christ.

>>You say....I do not se three thrones but I see two thrones...o.k..since you opened your big mouth..Print the chapter and the verse in the bible where it says that?!!! and!!! simple....other wise you are the one working for satan....so!!! are you going to put it??!!!!!!! or are you going and hide behing your master satan......what is going to be?!!!!!!

Brother James>

The religious hypocrites said the same thing about Jesus. How about I just ignore you.
 
Hello on the Path "TO HELL"...Peace of Christ.


Your stupidity has no limits...."You have an egg" you say . This egg has many parts. It has a shell, a white, a yolk, and yet is one egg...you didn't call eggs all the parts....as the trinity, three gods, god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit....I am a human being...and i have thousands of parts, in my body, does that measn I am thousands of meeesssss?.....go bakc to sholl and learn grammar......God is one "ALONE" He says....so if you do not understand the meaning of the word "ALONE"....stay in your path, the gate of helll was made "WWWWIIIIIIDDDDDDEEEE". i am very sure you will fit.....

Brother James.

You call "On The Path" stupid and suggest going back to school and yet look at the spelling and grammar in your posts. I suggest you seek God and allow Him to work in your heart before you try and instruct anyone else.
 
"Brother James" has been banned and posts erased for mocking others, being insulting and teaching unbiblical views.
 
Imagine my surprise to find that Brother James has condemned me to Hell!!

Imagine my surprise to find that someone considers me stupid just because I have a different point of view. (My dad would not be happy to find out I am stupid since he paid for my college education.)

I find it strange that Brother James took issue with the egg but said nothing about the football team.

Too bad, with all of us as a GROUP he could not understand what we were saying - - each of us gave it our best shot.
 
This is one Im still unsure of though Im leaning towards the reality of the Trinity.

Christ did not die.

He IS His soul. He was in a body that died. It died becuase He wanted it to die. He willed it to die. It was His plan for it to die. He did not die. Are we forgeting His spirit? The Holy Spirit? His body was material, for it to die meant nothing as far as this particular argument is concerned, though it meant everything spirituallly. How can God die? Well He cannott die but a material body which He has occuped can die, especially if He wants it to. Can you not agree?. He can die, as we know death, becuase He became man, He cannot die spiritually as we cannot know.

He prayed as He did for many reasons. He wanted to lead by example and was praying to The Father in His ultimate glorified state.

The Trinity is one of the reasons why I believe Christianity. It is unexpected and you could not have guessed it. The minute someone paints me an understandable picture of God is the minute that I reject it. How well does the dung beattle understand man? So them how well should we expect God granted the fact that the differences betweem us and God go way further than the differences between us and any dung beattle.

Let me explain CS Lewis' take on the situation but in my words as I do not have the text in front of me. He said something like this:

Draw a straight line front to back. This gives you one dimension. Now introduce up and down. You have two dimenstions. A one dimensional creature could never understand up and down. However we can understand not only up and down and back and forth but we also understand left and right, thus we get the three dimensional figures which we percieve to be reality. God operates on an infinte amount of dimensions which we could never comprehend. With our three-dimensional minds we cannot percieve His reality which apparently includes the combination of different personalities within the same entity.

(this is not to mention that personalities is a man-made word to deal with man percieved realities)
 
This is one Im still unsure of though Im leaning towards the reality of the Trinity.

Christ did not die.

He IS His soul. He was in a body that died. It died becuase He wanted it to die. He willed it to die. It was His plan for it to die. He did not die. Are we forgeting His spirit? The Holy Spirit? His body was material, for it to die meant nothing as far as this particular argument is concerned, though it meant everything spirituallly. How can God die? Well He cannott die but a material body which He has occuped can die, especially if He wants it to. Can you not agree?. He can die, as we know death, becuase He became man, He cannot die spiritually as we cannot know.

He prayed as He did for many reasons. He wanted to lead by example and was praying to The Father in His ultimate glorified state.

The Trinity is one of the reasons why I believe Christianity. It is unexpected and you could not have guessed it. The minute someone paints me an understandable picture of God is the minute that I reject it. How well does the dung beattle understand man? So them how well should we expect God granted the fact that the differences betweem us and God go way further than the differences between us and any dung beattle.

Let me explain CS Lewis' take on the situation but in my words as I do not have the text in front of me. He said something like this:

Draw a straight line front to back. This gives you one dimension. Now introduce up and down. You have two dimenstions. A one dimensional creature could never understand up and down. However we can understand not only up and down and back and forth but we also understand left and right, thus we get the three dimensional figures which we percieve to be reality. God operates on an infinte amount of dimensions which we could never comprehend. With our three-dimensional minds we cannot percieve His reality which apparently includes the combination of different personalities within the same entity.

(this is not to mention that personalities is a man-made word to deal with man percieved realities)

Christ did not die? Strange, Holy Bible says otherwise. I guess you don't believe in the Cross. What did Jesus do on the Cross?

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:34
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
 
No Im saying that its ridiculous to say that Christ could not have been God becuase His body died. His body did die as ours do. His body could die only becuase He willed and wished it so. The soul, in particular His, is immortal. It does not ever cease to exist. To say that Christ could not have been God utilizing the base that God cannot die and that Christians claim that He did in fact die becuase His body died is absurd. It requires the belief that Christ is nothing more than His body, which is ridiculous. His body ceases to exist but He does not. Of course He died, as far as we are concerned with the term "death" as it applies to the ceasing of equilibrium within biological organisms as we understand them. But when people say "Christianity is false becuase how can you kill God" they say something strikingly absurd. I mean I dont know, how could I know? How could God become man? Well I dont know but apparently He did. If He could become man, as He can do everything, certainly He could "unbecome man" (ie.- die)
 
Is it possible that Gais and Brother James are the same person?

When I read the first sentence where he said Jesus did not die, I did not bother to read another word.

It seems that his sole purpose for being on this board is for stirring up stuff.
 
Hi On the Path, there is a way we can know if Gaius is Brother James, but until we know, please do not assume that he is. Chad posted the response, and it is a good response, I do not care much for Gaius' reply, as it is not backed up by scripture.

If you have an opinion to share further in this thread, do it on a Biblical basis, not on your own understanding. The Bible has all the answers.

This thread will be locked and users will be banned if you do not continue as the rules of this forum require.

God bless
Much love
teraside
 
No Im saying that its ridiculous to say that Christ could not have been God becuase His body died. His body did die as ours do. His body could die only becuase He willed and wished it so. The soul, in particular His, is immortal. It does not ever cease to exist. To say that Christ could not have been God utilizing the base that God cannot die and that Christians claim that He did in fact die becuase His body died is absurd. It requires the belief that Christ is nothing more than His body, which is ridiculous. His body ceases to exist but He does not. Of course He died, as far as we are concerned with the term "death" as it applies to the ceasing of equilibrium within biological organisms as we understand them. But when people say "Christianity is false becuase how can you kill God" they say something strikingly absurd. I mean I dont know, how could I know? How could God become man? Well I dont know but apparently He did. If He could become man, as He can do everything, certainly He could "unbecome man" (ie.- die)

Drop your theory and stick with what GOD Himself says in the Bible. Your going off in odd thoughts that are un-necessary and not biblical. The Scripture quoted is the answer, period.
 
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