What is 'Perfect' or 'Perfection'?

[KingJ]

Greetings,
may I ask how it is that Jesus can be the Son of Man and our representative in the New Covenant if He was not first tempted?
But, what really was the temptation? Saying no to something only grants you a draw not a victory. Jesus gained the victory for us. How?
Bless you ....><>

I believe you and born again are talking past each other. Born again is referring to tempted as in an action toward sin has taken place. Not that Jesus was not 'tried'. You both / we all agree that Jesus was perfect and did not sin.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Greetings,

may I ask how it is that Jesus can be the Son of Man and our representative in the New Covenant if He was not first tempted?
But, what really was the temptation? Saying no to something only grants you a draw not a victory. Jesus gained the victory for us. How?


Bless you ....><>

I will say it again:

• Tempted by the Devil , yes.
• Jesus tempted, no!.
• Jesus, as I see it, would have had two options:

1. Be tempted by the devil and, in his heart, be enticed (tempted ) to do it but does not.
2. -or-, Be tempted by the devil and, in his heart, not even be enticed ( tempted) to do it and , therefore, does not.

Option 1 would be a sin because, whether you do it or not, you would have already committed the sin in your heart. As you are well aware, Jesus taught about the sins of the heart. This does not match the concept that Jesus was the unblemished Lamb of God!
Option 2 would not be a sin and what is expected of the Lamb of God and the perfect sacrifice upon which is a foundation to our salvation.

I don't know how else to explain Matthew 4:1.

 

[Bendito]

Greetings,

may I ask how it is that Jesus can be the Son of Man and our representative in the New Covenant if He was not first tempted?
But, what really was the temptation? Saying no to something only grants you a draw not a victory. Jesus gained the victory for us. How?


Bless you ....><>

Agreed How do you refuse something that is not offered? When Satan made his offers, that was the temptation....not the refusal.

 

[At Peace]

Yes and then there are levels of giving in to a sin.

Not in God's eyes.
It is written..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 john 3:8-9)

Who gets into heaven when we have all sinned and continue to sin after being saved?

Nobody.
Thankfully, though, not one man who gives up his prior sinful life for the life offered by God will continue to commit sin.

 

[At Peace]

You assume a lot. You have yet to spend even 5 minutes meditating on free will. You don't need banks to rob, marriages to break up, drugs to use.....you just need disobedience to something God says.

I for one will refuse to live next to annoying people in heaven. You really think God will stop some from being annoying?

God is not hands on management like a tyrant. 'He let's us be'. You speak as though you will stop being a human in heaven. Do you evolve into a demigod?

In heaven a horse is a horse. A dog is a dog. A cat is a cat. An angel is an angel. A human is a human. Do you know what a human is?

With my free will I have chosen to obey God.
Are you going to use your free will to disobey God till the time of your first death?
That will only garner a second death.
God has, thankfully, made it possible to live without sin, and to be able to pray for those "annoying people".

 

[At Peace]

@At Peace I think things like pride where people think they are far better then they are would come to mind in your question.
I think things like failing to loving one another as we love our selfs, you see you do not have to be a killer or a bank robber to have sinned DO you know why Mosses was not allowed to go into the promise land and God took his life, just by giving himself along with God credit for bringing water out of a rock.

Shouldn't we take that warning to heart?
Just a "minor" act caused Mosus' loss of the promised land,
Why shouldn't we be living in fear of God?

Jesus was the only sinless person in the bible, he was made perfect the second he was born IMO everyone else in the bible was a sinner just like you and me. Only the pharisees went around claiming to be sinless and we know how Jesus felt about that.

Amen to that!
But we are allowed a second birth, of God's seed, and can only bring forth Godly fruit.

Simpy by not loving your neighbor as yourself you have sinned, do you have any idea what that really looks like?? are you willing to lay down your life for a complete stranger that you may not even know??

I already have laid down my life, when I repented of sin and was crucified and, buried with Christ (Rom 6:3-6)
I am a new creature now, with the Holy Spirit in me to guide every foot step.

The wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23)
Paul writes..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; (death), and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
My death was accomplished on the cross with Christ.
But then I was also raised with Christ to walk in newness of life...with Christ. (Rom 6:4)
It is then written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin". (Rom 6:7)
All glory and thanksgiving to God!

 

[At Peace]

You have no clue! That is why he was perfect and you are not!

It is written..."For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb 4:15)

To refuse to believe that Jesus was a man LIKE US short changes His mastery of sin, flesh, temptation, and lust.
How can we emulate someone who couldn't suffer as we do against temptation?

 

[At Peace]

• So I had type-o!
• Matthew 4:1 is "highlighted"...click on it and you get the proper verse.
• Look, you seem to be inclined to say Jesus was not perfect...why?
• If Jesus was not perfect, the unblemished Lamb of God...."the perfect sacrifice"....then all is lie and we don't exist when we die! Except you, of-course, because you are perfect.

Why do you think a perfect man can not be tempted?
Didn't He come through the temptation perfectly?
He is our example.
Resist the temptations, like Jesus did, while in the flesh,
He did it, and so can we!

 

[At Peace]

Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

• "to be tempted" a temptation to occur in the future...by the Bible we know that it did occur and Jesus wasn't tempted to take any of the devil's temptations.
• " to be tempted by the devil"......If that is not Satin trying to temp Jesus, I don't know what is!
• Was Jesus the Lamb of God and the perfect sacrifice or not? Why don't you recognize that he was perfect in every way!

Jesus was perfect BECAUSE He resisted the temptations.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Jesus was perfect BECAUSE He resisted the temptations.

YES!!!!....not only did he resist perfectly but he was not even tempted perfectly. Reading scripture directly is not the way , like your perfection scriptures but knowing all of the word of God is.

 

[Bill]

You have no clue! That is why he was perfect and you are not!

I would be careful with this statement. God sees us in His perfection. It is we who separate ourselves from God with sin. Look at Judas. Jesus said his (Judas) name was written in heaven. Yet Judas chose his coarse and betrayed Christ. Jesus afterwards said, "it would have been better if he (Judas) hadn't been born.

 

[Bill]

YES!!!!....not only did he resist perfectly but he was not even tempted perfectly. Reading scripture directly is not the way , like your perfection scriptures but knowing all of the word of God is.

Jesus was both God and man, something to be grasped at.

 

[At Peace]

YES!!!!....not only did he resist perfectly but he was not even tempted perfectly. Reading scripture directly is not the way , like your perfection scriptures but knowing all of the word of God is.

How can one resist something that doesn't happen?
Can I be credited with resisting the temptation to...hijack a plane, if I never fly?

 

[Dave M]

I would be careful with this statement. God sees us in His perfection. It is we who separate ourselves from God with sin. Look at Judas. Jesus said his (Judas) name was written in heaven. Yet Judas chose his coarse and betrayed Christ. Jesus afterwards said, "it would have been better if he (Judas) hadn't been born.

Hey Bill can you show me in scripture where Jesus said that?

thanks

 

[Bill]

Hey Bill can you show me in scripture where Jesus said that?

thanks

It is all in Matthew. (I believe) Jesus is accused of working with the devil, after casting the devil out. Jesus rebukes them basically saying the devil cant cast himself out.
Later Jesus gives authority to the apostles, to cast out demons and to heal people. Jesus sends the disciples out. Judas name is listed among the 12. The apolstles return excited about casting out demons. Jesus says for them to be thankful that thier names are written in heaven.
At the last supper Jesus says "it would have been better that he'ld never been born.

 

[Bill]

Hey Bill can you show me in scripture where Jesus said that?

thanks

Im sorry, my truck is in the shop, and my bible with it. Most is in Matthew, if not all

 

[KingJ]

With my free will I have chosen to obey God.

As do all of us here.

When last did you sin? For how long have you been saved?

 

[Bill]

As do all of us here.

When last did you sin? For how long have you been saved?

I find that question to be a little silly, "when did you last sin" . We can strive to be perfect all day long, and if you can do that GREAT. But i dont sweat it too much. The little stuff that is. I strive to do Gods will, and seek His "sponge bath" to cleanse me of those stupid moments.

But those sins that i knowingly do. Well i try my best not to.

I have fallen out of grace more times than i care to mention. Yet God still uses me for His purpose. When i would fall flat on my face, the Father would say to me. "Get up, you have work to do". And i would tell Him what a sinner i am. He would say, "We will talk later".

 

[KingJ]

I would be careful with this statement. God sees us in His perfection. It is we who separate ourselves from God with sin. Look at Judas. Jesus said his (Judas) name was written in heaven. Yet Judas chose his coarse and betrayed Christ. Jesus afterwards said, "it would have been better if he (Judas) hadn't been born.

What sin did Judas commit? Did he steal a baby's popcorn? His betrayal must have been far worse then Peter's denial of Jesus as Jesus never said that of Peter.

I am just hammering this fact as this thread has gone in the direction of all sin is sin and we are perfect, like God. Do you believe that?

We are perfect because of Jesus. We will never be perfect / good like God Mark 10:18.

 

[KingJ]

1. I find that question to be a little silly, "when did you last sin" . 2. We can strive to be perfect all day long, and if you can do that GREAT. But i dont sweat it too much. The little stuff that is. I strive to do Gods will, and seek His "sponge bath" to cleanse me of those stupid moments.

But those sins that i knowingly do. Well i try my best not to.

I have fallen out of grace more times than i care to mention. Yet God still uses me for His purpose. When i would fall flat on my face, the Father would say to me. "Get up, you have work to do". And i would tell Him what a sinner i am. He would say, "We will talk later".

1. Peace believes he has not sinned since being saved.

2. Agree completely with the rest of your post.