Can i not be Christian and Saved?

[Rhema]

that word, 'belief' is in itself quite 'interesting', especially in the Light of the Gospel.

Certain words are extremely interesting. In Koine Greek as in Modern French, one cannot say "to know" without being able "to do." One cannot speak of having GNOSIS without being able to accomplish or perform that of which GNOSIS instructs. One cannot say, "I know Chemistry," without being able to mix up chemicals. There exists no concept such as "knowing about." ( I know about Chemistry, ... I know a lot about Chemistry, but you wouldn't want me to be mixing stuff up.)

In the same light, one cannot say they PISTEUO ( Believe ) something unless that belief forms a commensurate action. And one can tell what one believes by what one does. It's all part of the same concept. My point was that we need to use the verb / noun pair (Believe / Belief) in the same manner as it was 2,000 years ago. Otherwise we're just making stuff up.

Rhema

The word Faith is almost as useless as the word God or Love.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

True enough. Can't argue with that.

Maybe I should have said that pagans who do things out of love and do not know Christ as we do, experience the grace of God in a way that we do not fully understand

reminded of a book by Don Richardson, 'Lords of the Earth'.
However, there was still a need to explain or open their understanding so they could really get believing and turn from the ways that were not glorifying the Lord.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Certain words are extremely interesting. In Koine Greek as in Modern French, one cannot say "to know" without being able "to do." One cannot speak of having GNOSIS without being able to accomplish or perform that of which GNOSIS instructs. One cannot say, "I know Chemistry," without being able to mix up chemicals. There exists no concept such as "knowing about." ( I know about Chemistry, ... I know a lot about Chemistry, but you wouldn't want me to be mixing stuff up.)

In the same light, one cannot say they PISTEUO ( Believe ) something unless that belief forms a commensurate action. And one can tell what one believes by what one does. It's all part of the same concept. My point was that we need to use the verb / noun pair (Believe / Belief) in the same manner as it was 2,000 years ago. Otherwise we're just making stuff up.

Rhema

The word Faith is almost as useless as the word God or Love.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

PFFFT...

G4102 πίστις PISTIS does not mean "Faith." It's an exceedingly poor word choice. And the way you used that word (faith) in that post is pure Kierkegaardian in nature.

Own it.

Rhema

(Do you really think that weaponizing scripture against me has any impact whatsoever? Pffft.)

I may be wrong [i was once before] but i do not think there was/is any animosity from fellow member Curtis towards you Rhema
@Curtis & @Rhema

when i was a much younger Christian, i knew next to nothing of what all these terms were that i read [and heard] so i searched out, as deep as i could, to discover the message that was being conveyed to me [and all who read].

We have accounts of the spoken word in a written word in a different language understood by different people, but the message remains the same. for those who diligently seek Him.

Is it okay to say that the LORD is faithful?

וְיָ֣דַעְתָּ֔ כִּֽי־יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ ה֣וּא הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים הָאֵל֙ הַֽנֶּאֱמָ֔ן שֹׁמֵ֧ר הַבְּרִ֣ית וְהַחֶ֗סֶד לְאֹהֲבָ֛יו וּלְשֹׁמְרֵ֥י [מִצְוֹתֹו כ] (מִצְוֹתָ֖יו ק) לְאֶ֥לֶף דֹּֽור׃


Bless you ....><>

 

[Garee]

Certain words are extremely interesting. In Koine Greek as in Modern French, one cannot say "to know" without being able "to do." One cannot speak of having GNOSIS without being able to accomplish or perform that of which GNOSIS instructs. One cannot say, "I know Chemistry," without being able to mix up chemicals. There exists no concept such as "knowing about." ( I know about Chemistry, ... I know a lot about Chemistry, but you wouldn't want me to be mixing stuff up.)

In the same light, one cannot say they PISTEUO ( Believe ) something unless that belief forms a commensurate action. And one can tell what one believes by what one does. It's all part of the same concept. My point was that we need to use the verb / noun pair (Believe / Belief) in the same manner as it was 2,000 years ago. Otherwise we're just making stuff up.

Rhema

The word Faith is almost as useless as the word God or Love.

Faith is a work. it cannot be separated from intent.. "let there be " . . .faithfully it is good

Yes faith as a law is a two fold work . To both reveal and empower . It is not of our own self living in earthen dying vessels .

Philippians 2: 13 For it is God (alone) which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Similar to the word remember which is to act in accordance to what a person hears the now. . not later.

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

In that way our memory as a gift are the most valuable teaching tool reminding us who is is that began the teaching ministry as our confidence.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

John 14:226 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
No such thing as a self taught Christin. He brings to our memory each other in the family of God as those born agin from above.

 

[Bill]

I'd appreciate a better example, if you could be so kind.

Rhema

Some people "that recognize god's voice within them" hear him saying shoot these random people, e.g. the mass shooter in Philadelphia a few days ago. In other words, if god told him to go shoot those people, you SHOULD WANT him to ask someone else first before believing what god had already told him.

Because war is managed by due ordering: and there shall be safety where there are many counsels.​

(Proverbs 24:6 DRB)​

No, the interior voice of God has no hate. Love your neighbor as yourself. There would be no contradiction

 

[Rhema]

וְיָ֣דַעְתָּ֔ כִּֽי־יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ ה֣וּא הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים הָאֵל֙ הַֽנֶּאֱמָ֔ן שֹׁמֵ֧ר הַבְּרִ֣ית וְהַחֶ֗סֶד לְאֹהֲבָ֛יו וּלְשֹׁמְרֵ֥י [מִצְוֹתֹו כ] (מִצְוֹתָ֖יו ק) לְאֶ֥לֶף דֹּֽור׃

Interesting... The Westminster Leningrad Codex.

 

[Rhema]

No, the interior voice of God has no hate.

Maybe the recent mass shooter in Philadelphia ought to have asked someone before listening to his inner god-voice.

Then again, he did not shoot in hate, but in what he would have called loving concern.... (go figure).

Rhema

(I will would have appreciated a better example.)

 

[Bill]

Maybe the recent mass shooter in Philadelphia ought to have asked someone before listening to his inner god-voice.

Then again, he did not shoot in hate, but in what he would have called loving concern.... (go figure).

Rhema

(I will would have appreciated a better example.)

It's a little hard to give an example, of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You literally have to experience it.

There's a priest that I heard about one time that was experiencing a pretty rough start as a priest even inside the Catholic Church. Because inside the Catholic Church you have two basic groups you have the liberal Catholics, which I am not. And you have the Conservative Catholics.

This young priest who was traditional and conservative was sent to his first assignment in a very liberal Parish. And they clashed. And the bishop ended up sending him to another Parish which was also very liberal, and this priest clashed with the pastor again.

So now they sent him to a more conservative Parish.

So the Lord speaks to me, and says I want you to call him and tell him a message from me. And the Lord doesn't tell me what the message is. So I work on trying to figure out where this priest is located at and I call him up on the phone and he answers. I told the priest, that I knew that he did not who know who I was, but if he did he would listen to me. And I went on and I said that the Lord has a message for you, ( it was at this moment that the Lord's message came to my mind) I told him this is what the Lord said " I want you ".

I was at work and immediately following the message I was called into the dock. So I told the priest I had to go back to work. And I hung up. To which I kind of laughed about it personally I mean it was completely out of the blue if you think about it.

About 3 weeks later the Lord tells me to call him again. So I did, and it's just to talk with him and his comment to me was," how did you know I was thinking of quitting the priesthood" . And I didn't know, I just did what the Lord told me to do.

 

[Rhema]

It's a little hard to give an example, of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You literally have to experience it.

I am reminded of the aphorism, "Teach your grandmother to suck eggs."

You have no clue what I have walked in. If you did, you would not say such things. Perhaps you could PM me your best example, unless "I want you" serves as such.

Rhema

inside the Catholic Church you have two basic groups you have the liberal Catholics, which I am not. And you have the Conservative Catholics.

And yet I am aware of the Charismatic Catholics.... ( got a 45 year old paper on it around here somewhere....)

I told the priest, that I knew that he did not who know who I was, but if he did he would listen to me.

.... and they call me arrogant ....

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Rhema & @Bill

Brothers,

Ye shall both present yourselves for a smack on the ..... .

It appears to me that before your misunderstandings, that the posts were in good cheer and when a certain truck driver mentioned 'you' it was generic and not personal.
Oh, the internet, and how we can so easily take words the wrong way.... even more so than when speaking face to face.

that reminds me of a song, which I shall post here for you both [and me]


many blessings to you both [post in peace with love] ....><>

-----------------------------------

Jesus is returning
Like a thief in the night
He told us all we shall not know
The seasons or the times
He just said we must be ready
For there'll be no place to hide
Make straight the paths of righteousness
And shine your light

Face to face
All of creation shall be
Face to face
With the Light of the world
Face to face
Every nation shall see
Jesus
Face to face

And so we shall see Jesus
And all the ones who've gone before
Such a great cloud of witnesses
Coming with the Lord
The poor and afflicted
The needy and the hurt
The lowly and the humble
Shall inherit all the earth

And for everyone who called in vain
While injustice raised its head
For the ones who cried in hunger
And yet could not be fed
There shall come a new beginning
They shall all be glorified
We'll see every murdered unborn child
Standing by His side

Face to face
All of creation shall be
Face to face
With the Light of the world
Face to face
Every nation shall see
Jesus
Face to face

Face to face
All of creation shall be
Face to face
With the Light of the world
Face to face
Every nation shall see
Jesus
Face to face

We shall see
Jesus
Face to face

 

[Br. Bear]

 

[Bill]

I am reminded of the aphorism, "Teach your grandmother to suck eggs."

You have no clue what I have walked in. If you did, you would not say such things. Perhaps you could PM me your best example, unless "I want you" serves as such.

Rhema




And yet I am aware of the Charismatic Catholics.... ( got a 45 year old paper on it around here somewhere....)





.... and they call me arrogant ....

I shared an experience of how the Holy Spirit moves in me. How God works. Not much point chopping it up. As i said, it is something that needs to be experienced.

How about sharing with us your experience.

 

[Garee]

Certain words are extremely interesting. In Koine Greek as in Modern French, one cannot say "to know" without being able "to do." One cannot speak of having GNOSIS without being able to accomplish or perform that of which GNOSIS instructs. One cannot say, "I know Chemistry," without being able to mix up chemicals. There exists no concept such as "knowing about." ( I know about Chemistry, ... I know a lot about Chemistry, but you wouldn't want me to be mixing stuff up.)

In the same light, one cannot say they PISTEUO ( Believe ) something unless that belief forms a commensurate action. And one can tell what one believes by what one does. It's all part of the same concept. My point was that we need to use the verb / noun pair (Believe / Belief) in the same manner as it was 2,000 years ago. Otherwise we're just making stuff up.

Rhema

The word Faith is almost as useless as the word God or Love.

I would agree one cannot do anything unless empowered to both will and do it to His good pleasure. Without being yoked with him we came do nothing towards his glory.

1 Corinthians 12: 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Many say but do not do.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

 

[Bill]

I would agree one cannot do anything unless empowered to both will and do it to His good pleasure. Without being yoked with him we came do nothing towards his glory.

1 Corinthians 12: 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Many say but do not do.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

To me that whole Passage is talking about Judas. Quote many will say to me in that day, lord, lord, have I not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

Remember that Jesus gave to the apostles the authority over demons and the authority to heal people and then sent them out to the towns and they did just that. And after returning they were so excited and talking about what they had done. Where Jesus said to them Rejoice not what you have done but Rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Also we know that Judas could not have been filled with the Devil at that time because Jesus himself said that the devil cannot cast out the devil. So if Judas was casting out demons as the scripture States, then it would have been impossible for Judas if he was filled with the Devil.

What we must conclude then, is that Judas made a decision later on. I know many like to think that he was selected to be the traitor of Jesus. But I believe that Judas chose to do what he did, because it all makes sense when you understand that we have a free will to make a choice.

This also would confirm the person who is talking to the king saying, Lord Lord in your name I cast out demons. Because he could not do it if he was not in the Lord to do it in the first place. But somewhere between then and he comes before the Lord or the judge that he threw it all away for something stupid.

And that is exactly what Judas did through everything away because he thought he had a better idea than what God had. He might not have thought it that way, but that's the action that he was taking. That he felt that his way was more intelligent then what Jesus had plans for.

 

[Garee]

To me that whole Passage is talking about Judas. Quote many will say to me in that day, lord, lord, have I not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

Remember that Jesus gave to the apostles the authority over demons and the authority to heal people and then sent them out to the towns and they did just that. And after returning they were so excited and talking about what they had done. Where Jesus said to them Rejoice not what you have done but Rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Also we know that Judas could not have been filled with the Devil at that time because Jesus himself said that the devil cannot cast out the devil. So if Judas was casting out demons as the scripture States, then it would have been impossible for Judas if he was filled with the Devil.

What we must conclude then, is that Judas made a decision later on. I know many like to think that he was selected to be the traitor of Jesus. But I believe that Judas chose to do what he did, because it all makes sense when you understand that we have a free will to make a choice.

This also would confirm the person who is talking to the king saying, Lord Lord in your name I cast out demons. Because he could not do it if he was not in the Lord to do it in the first place. But somewhere between then and he comes before the Lord or the judge that he threw it all away for something stupid.

And that is exactly what Judas did through everything away because he thought he had a better idea than what God had. He might not have thought it that way, but that's the action that he was taking. That he felt that his way was more intelligent then what Jesus had plans for.

Hi I would offer.

The road is wide to the many spoken of.

The apostles as sent messengers (gospel) were given the power to show the love of God not seen holding out the gospel as it is written. .
God does not heal through human hand's as a will. The apostles of their own selve have no power to heal.

Note. . . . (Dying powerless. )

Note. . . .( New life)

Note . . . .(Power to heal)

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

They were not give that power to keep as their own . Each person yoked with Christ is responsible for their own work .The work of the apostles does not add . For what does any man have that he has not freely receive as a spiritual gift (not seen)

In most case the word apostle has been destroyed and made into venerable ones or puffed up ones. turning things upside down as if inspired from earth and not our father not seen.

The Bible defines the words written within. not the us that make up the us in Christ. we have no power of our own. Men who puff up other men above that which is written (sola scriptura) are simply false prophets sent as false apostles.

1 Corinthians 3: 5-8 by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

The first apostle and martyr Able.

 

[Bill]

Hi I would offer.

The road is wide to the many spoken of.

The apostles as sent messengers (gospel) were given the power to show the love of God not seen holding out the gospel as it is written. .
God does not heal through human hand's as a will. The apostles of their own selve have no power to heal.

Note. . . . (Dying powerless. )

Note. . . .( New life)

Note . . . .(Power to heal)

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

They were not give that power to keep as their own . Each person yoked with Christ is responsible for their own work .The work of the apostles does not add . For what does any man have that he has not freely receive as a spiritual gift (not seen)

In most case the word apostle has been destroyed and made into venerable ones or puffed up ones. turning things upside down as if inspired from earth and not our father not seen.

The Bible defines the words written within. not the us that make up the us in Christ. we have no power of our own. Men who puff up other men above that which is written (sola scriptura) are simply false prophets sent as false apostles.

1 Corinthians 3: 5-8 by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

The first apostle and martyr Able.

I do not fully agree with the thought process , of , "we do nothing". Rather, God allows us to join with Him, were healing and other uses of the Power of God is concerned.

Now i fully understand, God does not "need" us to create life, heal, and the many other workings of God. But all through the scripture, God chooses to include people to do His miracles through.

Examples.

Mary, mother of Jesus. She said yes, to be the vessel to carry Jesus in her womb. Moses said yes to be the prophet of God. As did Elijah and so many others. David said, here i am Lord.

Even to this day, couples procreate with God.

God could heal without our help, but He prefers to co-heal. We do not have the power, obviously, but we have to "want to" reach out to others.

Have you ever stopped to consider that 2 Corinthians 4:7 was talking about humans willing to give themselves to God. "But we have this treasure in "Earthen Vessels", that the excellency of the power may be of God.

 

[Garee]

I do not fully agree with the thought process , of , "we do nothing". Rather, God allows us to join with Him, were healing and other uses of the Power of God is concerned.

Now i fully understand, God does not "need" us to create life, heal, and the many other workings of God. But all through the scripture, God chooses to include people to do His miracles through.

Examples.

Mary, mother of Jesus. She said yes, to be the vessel to carry Jesus in her womb. Moses said yes to be the prophet of God. As did Elijah and so many others. David said, here i am Lord.

Even to this day, couples procreate with God.

God could heal without our help, but He prefers to co-heal. We do not have the power, obviously, but we have to "want to" reach out to others.

Have you ever stopped to consider that 2 Corinthians 4:7 was talking about humans willing to give themselves to God. "But we have this treasure in "Earthen Vessels", that the excellency of the power may be of God.

God gives us the power or desire to do his will.. Its the kind of food the apostles knew not of. . .our daily bread.

Not sure why you a venerate or worship those he sends with prophecy of God?

Yes, I have considered 2 Corinthians 4:7 it speaks of God working in mankind to both (the key) will and empower mankind to do it to his good pleasure. Job 23 informs us he is of one mind, and always does whatsoever his soul pleases seeing he performs that which he appoints to us. Let there be and it was good (law of faith) He makes our hearts soft.

living in bodies of death or judgment (its appointed for all to die the first time). Without being yoked with Christ we are powerless. No power none. He gives us little faith called a golden measure.

 

[Bill]

God gives us the power or desire to do his will.. Its the kind of food the apostles knew not of. . .our daily bread.

Not sure why you a venerate or worship those he sends with prophecy of God?

Yes, I have considered 2 Corinthians 4:7 it speaks of God working in mankind to both (the key) will and empower mankind to do it to his good pleasure. Job 23 informs us he is of one mind, and always does whatsoever his soul pleases seeing he performs that which he appoints to us. Let there be and it was good (law of faith) He makes our hearts soft.

living in bodies of death or judgment (its appointed for all to die the first time). Without being yoked with Christ we are powerless. No power none. He gives us little faith called a golden measure.

How can you possibly say "they knew not"? That is a preposterous assumption, maybe before Jesus death on the cross or before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles. But they definitely knew the meaning of the daily bread with Jesus after that.

Why would you say I worship anything other than God, the Trinity, Jesus?

Now venerate, if you mean I hold them in high regard, then absolutely. And why not for they are the vessels that God has chosen, not just anyone but those people.

I know what scripture says about God making the prophets out of rocks. But he didn't do that did he, he chose people, particular people.

I remember a lady not so long ago that was able to converse with God. She asked God why he didn't send someone with the ability to cure cancer. The answer God gave her surprised many people. He said " I did send someone, but his mother chose to abort him"

God chooses people all the time to do "special" tasks for him. The problem is not everyone bothers with them. In fact there are some who knowingly hear the Lord, that actually recognize that is the Lord that speaks to them, and still refuses to listen.

That little faith that you talk about, the golden measure. Is limited by your love for God. If you have no love for God then your measure will be very small and it will never grow. But if you fall in love with God and let his love Blossom within you, then that golden measure will expand beyond the reaches of the universe

 

[Rhema]

Ye shall both present yourselves for a smack on the ..... .

Well that's disturbing,

It appears to me that before your misunderstandings,

And that makes no sense.

I do not see nor recall any misunderstanding. We had been speaking about following an "inner voice" and whether confirmation should be sought. @Bill came out vociferously against this, I gave an example where someone ought to have sought confirmation before committing mass murder. Where might there be any misunderstanding?

when a certain truck driver mentioned 'you' it was generic and not personal

What "truck driver"?? Where was any "truck driver" mentioned at all?

My apologies, brother, none of this makes sense to me.

and how we can so easily take words the wrong way....

I searched every page of this thread for "truck driver" and it's hard to take any words the wrong way if they aren't there.

Rhema

( I have that album... somewhere. It doesn't have any bagpipe, though.)